From nordmark-request Fri Apr 1 16:28:11 1994 Received: from watson.ibm.com (watson.ibm.com [129.34.139.4]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA13070 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 1994 16:28:02 +0200 Received: from WATSON by watson.ibm.com (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 6567; Fri, 01 Apr 94 09:27:52 EST Received: from YKTVMH by watson.vnet.ibm.com with "VAGENT.V1.0" id 5193; Fri, 1 Apr 1994 09:29:16 EST Received: from blinn.watson.ibm.com by yktvmh.watson.ibm.com (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Fri, 01 Apr 94 09:29:15 EST Received: by blinn.watson.ibm.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/930311) id AA20751; Fri, 1 Apr 1994 09:27:33 -0500 Date: Fri, 1 Apr 1994 09:27:33 -0500 From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Joshua Mittleman) Message-Id: <9404011427.AA20751@blinn.watson.ibm.com> To: antir@kwantlen.bc.ca, sca-west@ecst.csuchico.edu, carolingia@bloom-beacon.mit.edu, calontir@unl.edu, nordmark@ludd.luth.se, northshield@stolaf.edu, e5@uriacc.uri.edu, sca-reform@mit.edu, jaymin@maths.tcd.ie, lgrant@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie, rgoff@mcimail.com, 71233.3035@compuserve.com, MMS6824@tntech.edu, north@bransle.ucs.mun.ca Reply-To: 72303.433@compuserve.com Subject: Message from the Eastern Crown Comment: Please forward to all SCA nets Reply-To: mittle@watson.ibm.com X-External-Networks: yes Status: RO [I post this message at the behest of my liege lord and lady, Gregor et Christence Rex et Regina Orientalis. It has been sent to the Rialto and to these mailing lists: antir, sca-west, carolingia, calontir, nordmark, northshield, north, e5, sca-reform. Please forward it to any other SCA mailing list or bboard.] Unto the people of the East (and anyone else who cares to read this) does Gregor and Christence, King and Queen of the East send greetings, Good gentles, We have received several phone calls and E-mail correspondence over the past week inquiring as to why there was no action taken by the Crowns when the deadline given to the BoD in the Estrella document was not met. Explanation: As far as we are concerned, the BoD did respond to the deadline. Their response was, "we need more time". Obviously, when the deadline was set, none of us could have forseen that three of the Directors would resign so soon after our requests were made. This development has interfered with the BoD's ability to make a well reasoned decision within the specified time frame. Considering the fact that the single biggest reason for all the furor over the past months is that they did not take the time to make a well thought out decision at their last meeting, We feel that it is prudent for them to take the time to bring the new directors up to speed and respond to us after careful consideration. We have been in constant contact with both the BoD and our Royal cousins. We are not letting these issues fade away, we are just trying to be reasonable people and allow the directors the extra time they have asked for. The next meeting of the BoD is April 19th. Most of the Crown heads will be in attendance. If a satisfactory reply to our requests of the board is not given at that time, then the Crowns will discuss what the next steps will be in order to live up to the promises they have made to their people. We, as Royalty, have given and taken oaths of fealty to and from the people of our Kingdoms. This fealty is not given or taken lightly, and we will do whatever is necessary to defend and protect the people of the East. The pollings that we sent out, the signatures of support that we have received, and the meeting of the peerage and landed Baronage at Mudthaw, have served to assure us and our Heirs that we know the wishes of the people of the East. Thanks to your responses we know that we have your support, which will allow us, or more likely our Heirs, to be able to act with confidence. I am very optimistic that the decision for required membership will be overturned. But this would only be one step, not a victory. If the decision is overturned we cannot lose focus on the larger issues that loom in the Society. Accountability, representation, disclosure and the simple decency of treating each and every participant in our Society with the respect they deserve, (not as magazine subscribers), these are the issues that we must continue to strive for. There are also the financial issues that must be dealt with, as well as determining what direction the Society wishes to go. Note: We say the Society, not the corporation. No matter what Tony Provine and some former (and perhaps present) directors may feel, WE are the Society. We do not exist for the corporation; the corporation exists so that our Society can exist in a mundane world, period. Many of the problems that exist now are here because the vast majority of us never paid much attention to the dealings of the corporation. That has turned out to be a costly mistake. We must all act as watchdogs for the society, look down the road to anticipate problems and then actively look for solutions. Talk to your ombudsman, write them letters, tell them your concerns, offer them solutions. An ombudsman is for the kingdom to utilize, not just the royalty. Any one of you can call or write them. It took a major, sweeping decision for the people of the society to look up and take notice. Dont' let your interest wane. Keep watching, only you can insure that you are being represented. In closing let us state that it is far from over, it has only just begun. In service to the East and the Society, Gregor & Christence King and Queen of the East From nordmark-request Fri Apr 1 16:54:38 1994 Received: from hqrtmta1.doe.gov (hqrtmta1.doe.gov [146.138.1.131]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA13202 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 1994 16:54:31 +0200 From: HAROLD.FELD@hq.doe.gov Received: by hqrtmta1.doe.gov (1.37.109.4/16.2) id AA18097; Fri, 1 Apr 94 09:52:26 -0500 Received: by hq.doe.gov via Worldtalk with X400 (2.3.0/1.36) id WT00264.2351; Fri, 01 Apr 1994 09:52:25 EST Date: 1 Apr 94 09:57:00 -0500 To: mittle@watson.ibm.com, antir@kwantlen.bc.ca, sca-west@ecst.csuchico.edu, carolingia@bloom-beacon.mit.edu, calontir@unl.edu, nordmark@ludd.luth.se, northshield@stolaf.edu, e5@uriacc.uri.edu, sca-reform@mit.edu, jaymin@maths.tcd.ie, lgrant@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie, rgoff@mcimail.com, 71233.3035@compuserve.com, MMS6824@tntech.edu, north@bransle.ucs.mun.ca Subject: Re: Message from the Eastern Crown Message-Id: Status: RO This statement looks a hell of a lot better than what Gregor showed Tibor. Arval, did Gregor ask your help for a re-write or did he come up with this on his own. The ideal, of course, would have been to give us a rousing vote of support. However, I didn't expect that. At least it keeps people focused on questions of overall reform. Yaakov (If this turns out to be another April Fool's post, I will seriously bust some heads.) (I wonder if there is any way to get April Fool's a Federal holiday?) :-) From nordmark-request Sun Apr 3 12:36:08 1994 Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by mother (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA06267 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 1994 12:36:07 +0200 Received: from macpost.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP (5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA17398; Sun, 3 Apr 94 12:39:18 +0200 Subject: Re: Fraaga om dubbelkriget.. To: robhed@Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE Cc: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se Date: Sun, 3 Apr 94 12:36:15 +0200 Message-Id: <940403.123615.50231@macpost.lu.se> Status: RO Sven G. st{ller en h|gst rimlig fr}ga: >jag undrar vad det aer som goer det skaeligt att ta ut 200:- i plats >avgift foer dubbelkriget? Jo, s} h{r {r budgeten i stora drag, ber{knad till 100 deltagare: Utgifter: lokalhyra, 6000,- + 30,-/deltagare, totalt 9000,- Hyra av samlingst{lt till hov, universitetet, m m, med tillh|rande m|bler: 7000,- Summa fasta utgifter: 16 000,- Inkomster: 200,-/pers = 20 000,- Inkomster - fasta utgifter = 4000,- Dessa 4000,- ska anv{ndas till transporter, f|rbrukningsmaterial (st{d, toapapper, halm & pinnar & rep & annat material till krigen, ev. komplettering av f{ltsk{rsmateriel, tyg m m till dekorering av tavernan) samt som reserv f|r of|rutsedda utgifter: f|r tv} }r sedan tog t ex vattnet slut och vi var tvungna att best{lla en cistern med dricksvatten. N{r det g{ller det hyrda samlingst{ltet, finns det visserligen en lada p} g}rden, men den {r t{mligen tr}ng och m|rk f|r att h}lla hov och kurser i; dessutom kommer d{r h}llas en taverna med |lr{ttigheter p} kv{llarna torsd - l|rd, s} det kommer att beh|vas en alternativ samlingsplats. 100 deltagare kanske l}ter fegt och konservativt, men i s}dana h{r sammanhang {r det autokratens skyldighet att vara feg. Ekonomiska sm{llar pga f|r "tr}ng" planering {r inte trevligt och Torsheim har inte r}d med det. - Blir vi betydligt fler {n 100, f}r man hyra in dass och duschar, vilket kostar PENGAR. Ett eventuellt |verskott kommer att anv{ndas till grundpl}t f|r kommande Dubbelkrig. Har du fler fr}gor, h|r g{rna av dig igen. Liksom om du vill anm{la dig, email {r ett utm{rkt s{tt. Catrin Dubbelkrigsautokrat :) Janna.Spanne@Kansli.LTH.se From nordmark-request Sun Apr 3 17:13:30 1994 Received: from meryl.csd.uu.se (meryl.csd.uu.se [130.238.11.31]) by mother (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA08954 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 1994 17:13:29 +0200 Received: by meryl.csd.uu.se id AA04982 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for Nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Sun, 3 Apr 1994 17:13:27 +0200 Date: Sun, 3 Apr 1994 17:13:27 +0200 Message-Id: <199404031513.AA04982@meryl.csd.uu.se> To: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se Cc: robhed@Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE, Nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-Reply-To: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se's message of Sun, 3 Apr 94 12:36:15 +0200 <940403.123615.50231@macpost.lu.se> Subject: Fraaga om dubbelkriget.. From: Sender: vader@csd.uu.se X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: RO Det d{r med att anv{nda eventuella |verskott som gruntpl}t tillkommande evenemang (allts} samma grej n{sta }r) tycker jag {r utm{rkt. R{tt vad det {r f}r vi }terb{ring och hela dubbelkriget blir gratis! :-) William From nordmark-request Sun Apr 3 17:24:17 1994 Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by mother (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA09103 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 1994 17:24:16 +0200 Received: from macpost.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP (5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA21724; Sun, 3 Apr 94 17:27:29 +0200 Subject: Re: Dubbelkriget.. To: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se Date: Sun, 3 Apr 94 17:24:26 +0200 Message-Id: <940403.172426.50259@macpost.lu.se> Status: RO >... ... R{tt vad det {r f}r vi }terb{ring och hela >dubbelkriget blir gratis! :-) > >William Tja, vem vet, en dag kanske... Men det f|ruts{tter _m}nga_ Dubbelkrigare, s} det _blir_ en vinst. S} hall} d{r, var finns alla anm{lningar? Den 25:e {r SISTA anm{lningsdagen, inte f|rsta. F|r tillf{llet ligger Torsheim ute med 6000 kr i f|rskott p} hyran! Det springer bara omkring en massa rykten om att X Y och Z t{nker komma, men utom en liten bunt Torsheimare {r bara 3 pers anm{lda hittills. KOM IGEN D] !!!!! Catrin Janna.Spanne@Kansli.LTH.se From nordmark-request Mon Apr 4 08:53:24 1994 Received: from gw1.att.com (gw1.att.com [192.20.239.133]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA07067 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 1994 08:53:18 +0200 Message-Id: <199404040653.IAA07067@mother.ludd.luth.se> From: hablutzelml@attmail.com (Margo Lynn Hablutzel ) Date: 4 Apr 94 06:02:45 GMT To: antir@kwantlen.bc.ca, sca-west@ecst.csuchico.edu, carolingia@bloom-beacon.mit.edu, calontir@unl.edu, nordmark@ludd.luth.se, e5@uriacc.uri.edu, northshield@stolaf.edu Received: from hablutzelml by attmail; Mon Apr 4 06:02:45 GMT 1994 Phone: +1 312 220 9140 Fax-Phone: +1 312 220 9261 Subject: How to Obtain Corporate Documents Content-Type: text Status: RO Salutations, All, from Morgan Cely Cain! Within the last few weeks, you have received information that a group called "Committee to Save Our Society" has filed a lawsuit against the SCA, Inc., to obtain certain financial and similar documents. In that same week, a lady named Janet in the West Kingdom called up one of the state agencies in California, and with a bit of communication obtained over 400 pages of corporate and financial documents, some dated as recently as early March of 1994. She obtained these documents within a week of her initial call, and at a cost of under US$100.00. This was after I had posted on several 'nets the fact that much of the information which CSOS claimed to seek is available publicly, if anyone cared to call the state agencies; that's why Janet tried. I posted Janet's information on the 'nets, and instantly was swamped with demands in varying tones, all wanting to know what she obtained and how. I asked for this information, and a debate ensued amongst the group who had helped Janet to pay for the copies of these documents. The consensus of the group was to not provide copies for free, since they had had to pay for it, but to provide everybody with the information by which they could obtain the information for themselves. What follows is the context of the message I received from Janet and her housemate, the relevant parts in full except as to e-mail address: From: Terry Neill/Janet Toney, [ADDRESS OMITTED] Margo - Please do NOT give anyone our address or phone number unless you check each time with us. We obtained the information from: Legal Photocopy Service P.O. Box 1558 Sacramento, CA 95812-1558 (916) 442-3661 (voice) (916) 442-2482 (fax) They charge $0.25 per page. Legal Photocopy Service is one of several companies that provide this service. They just happen to be the one we asked. Ask for all documents or all 990s, CT-2s, and the documentation attached, for the Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc, from "The Registry of Charitable Trust" at the California Attorney General's office. Anyone in the entire world is free to contact any photocopy service in Sacramento and request copies of the documents Janet aquired. The Attorney General's office will not make copies for anyone but the California legistature, but that's why these photocopy services exist. The information is public and available to all. From nordmark-request Mon Apr 4 09:51:09 1994 Received: from bronze.lcs.mit.edu (BRONZE.LCS.MIT.EDU [18.30.0.254]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA07401 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 1994 09:50:59 +0200 Received: by bronze.lcs.mit.edu id AA24839; Mon, 4 Apr 94 03:50:26 EDT Date: Mon, 4 Apr 94 03:50:26 EDT From: greg@bronze.lcs.mit.edu (Greg Rose) Message-Id: <9404040750.AA24839@bronze.lcs.mit.edu> To: antir@kwantlen.bc.ca, calontir@unl.edu, carolingia@bloom-beacon.mit.edu, e5@uriacc.uri.edu, hablutzelml@attmail.com, nordmark@ludd.luth.se, northshield@stolaf.edu, sca-west@ecst.csuchico.edu Subject: Re: How to Obtain Corporate Documents Status: RO Greetings from Hossein! Morgan Ceily Cain writes: >Within the last few weeks, you have received information that a group >called "Committee to Save Our Society" has filed a lawsuit against the >SCA, Inc., to obtain certain financial and similar documents. > >In that same week, a lady named Janet in the West Kingdom called up one >of the state agencies in California, and with a bit of communication >obtained over 400 pages of corporate and financial documents, some dated >as recently as early March of 1994. She obtained these documents within >a week of her initial call, and at a cost of under US$100.00. This was >after I had posted on several 'nets the fact that much of the >information which CSOS claimed to seek is available publicly, if anyone >cared to call the state agencies; that's why Janet tried. With all due respect, Morgan's claim is untrue. What Janet has obtained through the California State Registry of Charitable Trusts is by no means what CSOS and other plaintiffs have sought through the mandamus action. What Janet has obtained is the corporation's articles of incorporation and amendments thereto, the corporation's by-laws and amendments thereto (although apparently not all by-laws amendments have been filed as required by state statute), the IRS Form 900s, the California Domestic Statement of Nonprofits (a state form which lists officers and the designated agent for receipt of process), and the CT-2s (the California equivalent of the IRS Form 990s). The IRS Form 990s are only one small part of what the mandamus action seeks. More importantly the mandamus action seeks inspection of the books of account and budgets -- which only SCA, Inc., not the California State Registry of Charitable Trusts, hold -- and it seeks enforcement of the rights of the advisory membership under By-Laws Article X and California statutes to inspect the books of account and budgets. All Janet's material is, is part of what SCA, Inc. showed the government. That is valuable to know. However, without inspection of the books of account and budgets we have no idea whether what SCA, Inc. reported to the government is accurate or not. Furthermore, the level of detail provided by the government reports filed by SCA, Inc. is not nearly great enough to determine whether any wrong-doing or lack of fiduciary care for the corporation is present. Furthermore, without enforcement of the membership's _permanent_ right to this information, we are at the mercy of the Board to be told only what the Board wants us to know. We have seen where that has gotten us. Morgan Ceily Cain is misrepresenting the mandamus action. We applaud any action which provides more financial information to the membership, but it does not serve the cause of reform to misrepresent the only legal action currently underway to guarantee the right of members to inspect the real books. In Service to the Society, and for the Committee to Save Our Society, Hossein Ali Qomi Baron, Lion of Ansteorra Chairman, CSOS (Gregory Rose) From nordmark-request Mon Apr 4 14:43:40 1994 Received: from gw1.att.com (gw1.att.com [192.20.239.133]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA09771 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 1994 14:43:30 +0200 Message-Id: <199404041243.OAA09771@mother.ludd.luth.se> From: hablutzelml@attmail.com (Margo Lynn Hablutzel ) Date: 4 Apr 94 12:42:01 GMT To: greg@bronze.lcs.mit.edu (Greg Rose), antir@kwantlen.bc.ca, calontir@unl.edu, carolingia@bloom-beacon.mit.edu, e5@uriacc.uri.edu, nordmark@ludd.luth.se, northshield@stolaf.edu, sca-west@ecst.csuchico.edu Received: from hablutzelml by attmail; Mon Apr 4 12:42:01 GMT 1994 Phone: +1 312 220 9140 Fax-Phone: +1 312 220 9261 Subject: Re[2]: How to Obtain Corporate Documents In-Reply-To: your message <9404040750.AA24839@bronze.lcs.mit.edu> of Mon Apr 4 03:50:26 -0400 1994 Content-Type: text Status: RO Saluations all, from Morgan Cely Cain! Hossein Ali Qomi stated that I have misrepresented the mandamus action of which he is a part. I did not intend to do so. However, the postings about this action leave the impression that the only way to obtain the Corporate financial data is through the Corporation or the courts, and this is simply untrue. In fact, in the information obtained by Janet are many documents and bits of information which the mandamus actions plaintiffs claimed they believe they have no right to see if they obtain the books of account and other corporate documents. Janet and her group have found considerable valuable information in the documents they obtained. They also have found records indicating that a number of the items that the mandamus action seeks do not exist, as the books have not been closed on 1993 in part because the local exchequers have not turned in all of their reports on schedule. This is not inappropriate given the method under which the Corporation has managed its books, from one central office. If I gave the wrong impression about the substance ofthe mandamus action, I am sorry. However, there is a wealth of information available to Society members through public offices and non-Corporation locations, and it seems silly for the mandamus action plaintiffs to so broadly dismiss this information simply because it is not the one item they seek. From nordmark-request Mon Apr 4 23:13:32 1994 Received: from watson.ibm.com (watson.ibm.com [129.34.139.4]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA15266 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 1994 23:13:29 +0200 Received: from WATSON by watson.ibm.com (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 2531; Mon, 04 Apr 94 17:13:24 EDT Received: from YKTVMV by watson.vnet.ibm.com with "VAGENT.V1.0" id 6749; Mon, 4 Apr 1994 17:13:22 EDT Received: from blinn.watson.ibm.com by yktvmv.watson.ibm.com (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Mon, 04 Apr 94 17:13:22 EDT Received: by blinn.watson.ibm.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/930311) id AA20307; Mon, 4 Apr 1994 17:13:21 -0400 Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 17:13:21 -0400 From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Joshua Mittleman) Message-Id: <9404042113.AA20307@blinn.watson.ibm.com> To: antir@kwantlen.bc.ca, sca-west@ecst.csuchico.edu, carolingia@bloom-beacon.mit.edu, calontir@unl.edu, nordmark@ludd.luth.se, northshield@stolaf.edu, e5@uriacc.uri.edu, sca-reform@mit.edu, jaymin@maths.tcd.ie, lgrant@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie, rgoff@mcimail.com, 71233.3035@compuserve.com, MMS6824@tntech.edu Subject: Mail those petitions! Reply-To: mittle@watson.ibm.com X-External-Networks: yes Status: RO Greetings from Arval! Do you have any signed impeachment petitions that you have not mailed in? Many people do. Please mail them today! When you collected signatures, you agreed to deliver those proxies as explained in the cover letter; you owe it to yourself and to those whose signatures you gathered to make sure that their signatures are counted. Please mail them _today_. The Crowns have expressed asked that this petition drive continue as a demonstration of popular support for reform. If you wish to do so, it is not too late to sign. =========================================================================== Arval d'Espas Nord mittle@watson.ibm.com From nordmark-request Tue Apr 5 13:04:34 1994 Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA22937 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 1994 13:04:33 +0200 Received: from astol.astro.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP (5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA03359; Tue, 5 Apr 94 13:07:47 +0200 Message-Id: <9404051107.AA03359@nomina.lu.se> Received: from nastol.astro.lu.se by astol.astro.lu.se with SMTP(16.6/16.2) id AA06257; Tue, 5 Apr 94 14:04:12 +0200 Received: by nastol.astro.lu.se(1.37.109.4/16.2) id AA12429; Tue, 5 Apr 94 13:04:01 +0200 From: Ralph Snel Subject: Re: Fraaga om dubbelkriget.. To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Tue, 5 Apr 94 13:04:01 METDST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO William wrote: "Det d{r med att anv{nda eventuella |verskott som gruntpl}t tillkommande evenemang (allts} samma grej n{sta }r) tycker jag {r utm{rkt. R{tt vad det {r f}r vi }terb{ring och hela dubbelkriget blir gratis! :-)" Or of course another "free" feast like last year, if there are any cooks who are willing to help. I'd be glad to organize things as long as I get some help. Klodwik From nordmark-request Tue Apr 5 17:22:43 1994 Received: from BU.EDU (BU.EDU [128.197.27.7]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA25700 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 1994 17:22:38 +0200 Received: from math.bu.edu by BU.EDU (1.99) Tue, 5 Apr 1994 11:21:58 -0400 Received: by math.bu.edu (5.61+++/Spike-2.1) id AA01132; Tue, 5 Apr 94 11:20:24 -0400 Date: Tue, 5 Apr 94 11:20:24 -0400 From: jeffs@math.bu.edu (Jeff Suzuki) Message-Id: <9404051520.AA01132@math.bu.edu> To: HAROLD.FELD@hq.doe.gov Cc: mittle@watson.ibm.com, antir@kwantlen.bc.ca, sca-west@ecst.csuchico.edu, carolingia@bloom-beacon.mit.edu, calontir@unl.edu, nordmark@ludd.luth.se, northshield@stolaf.edu, e5@uriacc.uri.edu, sca-reform@mit.edu, jaymin@maths.tcd.ie, lgrant@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie, rgoff@mcimail.com, 71233.3035@compuserve.com, MMS6824@tntech.edu, north@bransle.ucs.mun.ca In-Reply-To: (HAROLD.FELD@hq.doe.gov) Subject: Re: Message from the Eastern Crown Status: RO > (I wonder if there is any way to get April Fool's a Federal > holiday?) :-) Yaakov, any day Congress is in _session_ feels like April Fool's....and oftentimes we wish it _was_ just a joke. From nordmark-request Wed Apr 6 00:09:28 1994 Received: from watson.ibm.com (watson.ibm.com [129.34.139.4]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA00962 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 1994 00:09:25 +0200 Received: from WATSON by watson.ibm.com (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 9311; Tue, 05 Apr 94 18:09:15 EDT Received: from YKTVMV by watson.vnet.ibm.com with "VAGENT.V1.0" id 0405; Tue, 5 Apr 1994 18:09:07 EDT Received: from blinn.watson.ibm.com by yktvmv.watson.ibm.com (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Tue, 05 Apr 94 18:09:07 EDT Received: by blinn.watson.ibm.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/930311) id AA14610; Tue, 5 Apr 1994 18:09:06 -0400 Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 18:09:06 -0400 From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Joshua Mittleman) Message-Id: <9404052209.AA14610@blinn.watson.ibm.com> To: antir@kwantlen.bc.ca, sca-west@ecst.csuchico.edu, carolingia@bloom-beacon.mit.edu, calontir@unl.edu, nordmark@ludd.luth.se, northshield@stolaf.edu, e5@uriacc.uri.edu, sca-reform@mit.edu, jaymin@maths.tcd.ie, lgrant@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie, rgoff@mcimail.com, 71233.3035@compuserve.com, MMS6824@tntech.edu Subject: Your support needed to secure your rights Comment: Please forward to other SCA bboards; already posted to antir sca-west carolingia calontir nordmark northshield e5 sca-reform rec.org.sca Reply-To: mittle@watson.ibm.com X-External-Networks: yes Status: RO Good gentles, I give you greetings! We continue our legal action to secure the rights of the membership to the financial records of the Society. The corporation continues to violate its bylaws in failing to provide access to those records. It has withdrawn from a verbal agreement to settle. It has mis-led us by promising full disclosure and then fobbing us off with an admittedly meaningless summary. Its officers and agents have violated federal law. It has wasted valuable time and resources -- its own and ours -- by deliberately choosing to subvert a clearly-stated policy with nonsensical interpretation. Other parties have obtained some useful data from agencies of the state of California, but those data fall far short of the financial openness that is our legal right under the bylaws and our moral right by all that makes the Society valuable. How can we intelligently evaluate the Board's claims of financial emergency if we cannot see the data they used to reach that conclusion? And how could we honorably shirk our duty to share in shaping the future of our Society? This action is crucial to successful reform of the corporation and to healthy survival of our Society. We need your help. Justice does not come cheap and we must be prepared to face a strategy of corporate delay and legal obstruction. We have every hope that the directors will recognize their moral and legal obligation to the membership and guarantee your right as a member to know how your dues are spent. But we cannot risk failure from lack of resources. We need your help. Some gentles have given generously, but I fear that not enough have responded. Our initial costs are in excess of $2500, and they will grow quickly if the case goes to court. Contributions are being collected by J. Terry Nutter (Lady Angharad ver' Rhuawn), 2511 Manchester St., Blacksburg, VA 24060. She may be reached by e-mail at jtn@vtopus.cs.vt.edu or by telephone at (703) 552-1598. Please make any checks sent payable to J. Terry Nutter/CSOS. A full accounting of the use of all donations will be promptly available by request with SASE. Please help as you can, and please pass this appeal to your fellows in the Society. Arval Benicoeur, Companion of the Pelican. From nordmark-request Wed Apr 6 01:10:35 1994 Received: from nak.berkeley.edu (nak.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.136.21]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA01516 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 1994 01:10:29 +0200 Received: from [128.32.144.118] by nak.berkeley.edu (8.6.7/1.40) id QAA11391; Tue, 5 Apr 1994 16:06:31 -0700 X-NUPop-Charset: English Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 15:56:46 -0800 (PST) From: "Flieg Hollander" Sender: flieg@garnet.berkeley.edu Reply-To: flieg@garnet.berkeley.edu Message-Id: <57415.flieg@garnet.berkeley.edu> To: mittle@watson.ibm.com, 71233.3035@compuserve.com, MMS6824@tntech.edu, antir@kwantlen.bc.ca, calontir@unl.edu, carolingia@bloom-beacon.mit.edu, e5@uriacc.uri.edu, jaymin@maths.tcd.ie, lgrant@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie, nordmark@ludd.luth.se, northshield@stolaf.edu, rgoff@mcimail.com, sca-reform@mit.edu, sca-west@ecst.csuchico.edu, Subject: RE: Your support needed to secure your rights Status: RO Frederick to all and sundry, Greetings! In a recent message asking for support for the petition in court to force the SCA, Inc. to do what it has promised to do in the By-Laws, allow access to the books of record, he said: > [[...stuff trimmed...]] > Justice does not come cheap and we must be prepared to face a strategy of [...] > have responded. Our initial costs are in excess of $2500, and they will > grow quickly if the case goes to court. > [...] > Please help as you can, and please pass this appeal to your fellows in the > Society. I am pleased to report that the West Kingdom is one of the groups which _has_ responded to this plea. A donation jar was set out at March Crown Tourney and collected $280. With some additional donations, $315 was sent to Terry Nutter as the West's fair share of the _initial_ burden of this suit. If each Kingdom can raise as much, there will be over $4000 in the kitty. It isn't hard, just go to the next major event with an explanatory flier and pass the hat a couple of times around the field. Thank everyone a lot and don't get upset if people don't want to give. Thank you for your attention. --Flieg * * * Frederick of Holland, MSCA, OP, etc. *** *** *** back at: flieg@garnet.berkeley.edu _|___|___|_ |===========| (((Flieg Hollander, Chem. Dept., U.C. Berkeley))) ================== Old Used Duke ================= From nordmark-request Wed Apr 6 08:43:16 1994 Received: from madonna.Kemi.UU.SE (madonna.kemi.uu.se [130.238.66.25]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA05305 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 1994 08:43:10 +0200 From: frithiof@oorgan.dnet Received: from OORGAN.DECnet MAIL11D_V3 by madonna.Kemi.UU.SE with SMTP id AA28151 (5.65c+/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Wed, 6 Apr 1994 08:50:13 +0200 Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 08:50:13 +0200 Message-Id: <199404060650.AA28151@madonna.Kemi.UU.SE> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: Lift till Liunga? Status: RO [r det n}gon som skall till Liungasa mj|dbad, och har v{garna f|rbi Uppsala? Har ni dessutom en ledig plats i bilen? Min ordinarie skjuts har f}tt f|rhinder, s} jag {r strandsatt. Frithiof(@kemist.kemi.uu.se) From nordmark-request Wed Apr 6 08:58:22 1994 Received: from goliat.dc.luth.se (root@goliat.dc.luth.se [130.240.12.20]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA05435 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 1994 08:58:20 +0200 Received: from unauthenticated@gw1.att.com by goliat.dc.luth.se with SMTP (5.67b8/IDA-1.2.8-NS) id AA06996; Wed, 6 Apr 1994 08:58:11 +0200 Message-Id: <199404060658.AA06996@goliat.dc.luth.se> From: hablutzelml@attmail.com (Margo Lynn Hablutzel ) Date: 6 Apr 94 06:49:30 GMT To: antir@kwantlen.bc.ca, sca-west@ecst.csuchico.edu, carolingia@bloom-beacon.mit.edu, calontir@unl.edu, nordmark@ludd.luth.se, northshield@stolaf.edu, e5@uriacc.uri.edu, jaymin@maths.tcd.ie, lgrant@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie, rgoff@mcimail.com, 71233.3035@compuserve.com, MMs6824@tntech.edu Received: from hablutzelml by attmail; Wed Apr 6 06:49:30 GMT 1994 Phone: +1 312 220 9140 Fax-Phone: +1 312 220 9261 Subject: Letter from CURB Content-Type: text Status: RO PLEASE, don't flame me if you don't like this. I am just the messenger! The following letter may be circulated as widely as you choose: Unto all gentles of the Knowne World from the Committee Urging a Responsible Board (CURB), Greetings! As you are probably aware by now, the decisions made by the Board of Directors at their January 22 meeting have caused much consternation within the Society. Many members of the Society have been "meeting" online on Compuserve to talk about these decisions and what all of us, as members of the Society, might do about them. We represent a wide variety of Societal ranks, most of the kingdoms, and several countries. This letter is an interim report on several proposals which we have been discussing to bring about reform of the Society's structure without endangering the Society itself. We would appreciate it if you would share the contents of this letter with the members of your group, and discuss these proposals freely. Many people, when they heard about required membership and pay-to-play, had strong, even drastic, initial reactions. Some talked about giving up medievalism for good, some about starting up another organization. But many of us enjoy the Society. We could not give up the fun we have in it, nor did we think that another organization would ever feel quite the way the Society does. We were, and are, irate about many of the things the Board has done, its casual attitude toward the membership, and the callous manner with which the Executive Director and Corporate Attorney have denied all requests for information. But anger, even justified anger, is not a good basis on which to build reform. HISTORICAL SUMMARY The Board of Directors met on January 22, 1994 for their regularly scheduled winter meeting, approval of the 1994 budget being the main item on the agenda. The actual discussion of the budget was done in executive session, and only the directors know the full details of what went on. During the discussion, the Board became convinced that the budget was very much out of balance, and that extra income was required. After quickly (and perhaps superficially) considering other options, the one on which they settled was mandatory membership and at a higher subscription rate. They then went into open meeting and presented their decisions to the people in attendance. Their defence of their decisions was that there was a financial crisis, and that this was the only way to meet it. This new rule required a change in the By-Laws of the Corporation, being a fundamental change in the Society's organization. Such a revision of the By-Laws requires notice to, and commentary from, the members ofthe Society before it can be voted on. Not only was this not done, but the proposal for mandatory membership was not even on the agenda, and most of the directors only learned of it at the meeting. While the By-Laws allow for such changes in the case of "emergency", which is the reason the Board used for not requesting commentary, it has become apparent that there was time for such discussion. A letter, dated January 27, 1994, was sent to all members of the Society, attempting to justify the Board's actions. It included a summary of the budget proposed for 1994, considerably higher than those of prior years. The letter indicated that there were increases in some expenses and that some expenses were new, but the budget figures themselves did not detail these changes in any meaningful way. This letter, incidentally, cost at least 70 cents to print and mail, and was sent to every subscriber and associate member. This is some 18,000 - 20,000 copies, including multiple copies to many households. The minimum cost was at least $12,600, possibly more, at a time when the Board was worried about expenses. Several members of CURB have practical experience in printing and mailing and are certain that a third of that expense could have been saved; more if the duplicate letters had been eliminated. Even before the Board's letter was mailed, many people had heard about the changes proposed, and they were upset. In some kingdoms petitions calling for the impeachment of the entire Board were circulated. A great many people from all the kingdoms of the Society wrote to the Board, expressing their displeasure and seeking a better explanation of the Board's actions. At Estrella War, February 19, 1994, the kings of eleven of the thirteen kingdoms agreed to demand that the Board immediately be expanded to thirteen members. Though not stated explicitly in their statement, the kings obviously intended to use the new Board members to repeal the Board's decisions. This proposal also caused some dissension, as it too required a change in the By-Laws and consultation with the membership. On March 2, 1994, during a conference call (the Board's way of handling business between formal meetings), a motion was made and seconded to consider rescinding the mandatory membership requirement. This motion will be voted on at the Board's April 16 meeting. Within the next few days, three members of the Board resigned. Two had voted in favor of mandatory membership, one had voted against it. They have been replaced by three new members. Several people have written to the Executive Director (the head of the Corporation) asking for copies of past financial statements. They wished to analyze the numbers themselves to determine if there really was a financial crisis. All such requests have been refused without explanation. A group of Society members say that on March 24, 1994, they filed suit in California to force the Board to release all financial information. Many people are dismayed at this lawsuit, as it puts the Board even more on the defensive. This will make it even harder to persuade them to listen to any suggestions for reform. This brings us to the present date, with the Board's April meeting soon upon us. Harsh words have been spoken in many quarters about the Board's decisions, and radical changes to the Society have been suggested. But if we who make up the Society are to persuade our fellow members on the Board to undertake any real reforms, we must be civil and moderate. With this in mind, please consider the following suggestions put forth by some of your companions in the Society. A SUMMARY OF THE REFORMS There are several areas in the relationship of the Corporation to the Society which need reform: 1. Financial accountability is one of the most important; we need detailed budgets and annual accounts so that we can tell if the Board is spending our money wisely or not. 2. The manner by which Board members are selected should be changed to allow more voice in the choice to the general membership. 3. The responsibilities and field of action of the Board should be more narrowly defined, so that it concentrates on truly corporate matters, and leaves the day-to-day operation of the Society to the corporate and/or kingdom officers. 4. There should be a means whereby the populace of the Society can impeach and remove a Board member for cause. 5. Certain matters, such as fundamental changes to the membership rules, should be submitted as a referendum to the membership; this would provide the populace a chance to agree or disagree _before_ major changes were made. 6. A new By-Law is needed to prevent the dissolution of the Society in the event the entire Board should resign. 7. The Corporate hierarchy should be re-aligned, with the expert on mundane matters, our current Executive Director, taking a secondary position to the Society Seneschal. 8. IF there is a financial crisis, another means of meeting it must be found than mandatory membership. We do not have detailed solutions for all of these yet, but with your advice we can build a better corporate structure for the Society. Please send your comments to the good gentle who mailed this letter to you. He or she will pass them along to the rest of us. (If you have access to Compuserve, you may reply directly to us in the Living History Forum, section 13, Controversies.) FINANCIAL ACCOUNTABILITY We need full financial disclosure, past, present and future. The Corporation demands highly detailed reporting from every local branch. The same standards of reporting should apply to the Corporation as well. This is not just a frivolous whim on our part, or idle curiosity. The Corporation is spending our money, and we should be told precisely how and why that money is being spent. The budget should be available to the membership for discussion in advance of the Board meeting at which it will be adopted. Anyone should be able to send in a request and a SASE and receive a copy of the budget a month before the deadline for comments to the Board. Not everyone will take advantage of this, of course. And not everyone will be familiar enough with budgets to spot problems. But we have enough people in the Society who can analyze budgets, and who are interested, to keep the Corporation's spending plans within OUR ability to pay. The Board should also publish in the kingdom newsletters quarterly updates on the budget. Is revenue ahead of expenses so far? Have expenses risen suddenly? This sort of information will avoid the nasty surprise of another "financial crisis." If we can see a short-fall coming up, we can devise more moderate means of handling it than were tried in January. Obviously, the Board members should be held responsible for their budgetary decisions. Not in the financial sense of having to make up any short-fall out of their own pockets -- no one would be willing to serve under such terms. But rather in the political sense of being subject to removal for incompetence. BOARD RESTRUCTURING There are several changes which should be made to the Board and the way it operates. We prefer a nine member Board, serving three year terms, with three new members coming in every year. We considered a director for every kingdom, either directly chosen from each kingdom, or merely equalling the number of kingdoms. But we think that the continued growth of the Society would eventually result in a Board of unmanageable size. The exact method of choosing the directors is still under discussion. We have generally agreed on having nominations come from the general membership. The mechanics of the actual election are more varied. We have discussed letting the Kings and Kingdom Officers of the several kingdoms choose from the nominees, or letting the populace vote for their choice. Other proposals, some rather complicated, have also been put forward; and there are surely some good ones we have not thought of. There have been strong arguments for and against both proposals. Kings and Officers should have a strong devotion to the Society and a good knowledge of the best candidates from their kingdoms. Yet, they may also play favorites, and a domineering king may cajol his officers into accepting his candidate. Popular elections let everyone have a say in who is on the Board, and most members should also know who among their fellows is a good candidate. But popular elections can be time consuming and costly, and can also turn into popularity contests. We welcome your suggestions on this point most particularly. Along with the question of how to select the directors is the question of how to remove them. Impeachment of a director should not be undertaken lightly, but it must always be an option available to the membership. If a Board member fails in his or her performance or violates the By-Laws, that person should be subject to removal. A set of rules for impeachment must be established which will be easy to carry out, yet which will not permit frivolous calls for impeachment. It will not be easy to reconcile these two contradictory aims. This, again, is a matter deserving your keenest attention and thought. More important, in many ways, than WHO is on the Board, is what the Board can do, and can not do. The function of a Board of Directors is to set general policy and to receive sufficiently detailed reports to be aware that the policy set is being carried out. There is no need for any Board to involve itself in the daily details of running an organization, nor to check for compliance personally. One of the oldest complaints about the Board, going back to its beginnings, is that it is too involved with the details of the Society. In reality, their position is that of caretaker, providing services in response to our needs, and not making us change our ideas of the Society to suit their convenience. The Society has taken on a life of its own, all of us deciding together what rules we want to play by, what traditions and customs we want to create, or keep, or abandon. The Board's involvement in our daily life should be minimal, restricted to the setting of broad standards while letting us work out the specific rules on a kingdom by kingdom basis. We have corporate officers who have the responsibility for overseeing the details of our activities. They supervise the kingdom officers, who in turn supervise the local ones. The Board should only check on the performance of the corporate officers, and only to see that they are doing their jobs. The Board should never get involved in running any corporate office, but only replace any officer who is not performing properly. By taking the Board out of the direct supervision of everything in the Society, we will be making their job easier. For once, they will have more time to think about their proper function -- broad policy decisions. Without minor details to distract them, they can devote more attention to the major issues, such as planning the budget, or analyzing our growth. They will have fewer trivial letters to read, and so can afford to ask for advice on the serious matters, and find time to read THOSE responses. To help provide this advice in a formal manner, certain matters which the Board may consider must be placed before the membership in a referendum. This will ensure popular support for major changes, and prevent the Board from arbitrarily changing the basic rules of the Society. Those parts of the By-Laws dealing with the selection of the directors, the impeachment of directors, the holding of referenda, and the rules on membership are all too vital to our general interests to be altered by the Board unilaterally. A referendum, published in the kingdom newsletters or in TI, will be required to make any change to these matters. A detailed list of the "protected" By-Laws will need to be drawn up, perhaps including some not mentioned above. A plurality of the returned ballots will determine whether a change is accepted or rejected. Rate increases have not been included in this list. Proper financial accounting and the ability to remove directors should provide a sufficient safeguard against unnecessary increases. And this is a matter which is within the Board's proper domain. As a further check on the Board's performance, copies of the official minutes of Board meetings should be made available to all members who wish to see them. These minutes should give sufficient detail that those who were not in attendance will be able to understand at least the main points of the matters discussed. We need to add to the By-Laws a provision to prevent the automatic dissolution of the Society in the event the entire Board should resign. This may seem very hypothetical, but we have just seen half the Board resign. Sudden natural disasters (earthquakes, tornadoes, etc.) could also leave us without a Board. We must have a procedure for quickly replacing the Board in such a case. These new members would be temporary, acting only until new directors could be chosen in the normal manner. These proposals have not been made with the intention of crippling the Board of Directors. They have a function in running the Corporation, and their place cannot easily be taken by some other body. We only wish to make them more responsible to, and responsive to the wishes of, the members of the Society. CORPORATE RESTRUCTURING Our brief experience with an Executive Director as head of the Corporation has not been happy. His ideas on many matters, including the relation of the Corporation to the Society, have not agreed well with ours. This may have led to some of the problems we are currently having; it has certainly aggravated them. We propose that the chief executive power be returned to the Society Seneschal, as senior officer for the medieval aspects of the Society. A large part of the executive responsibilities revolve around the medieval element of the Society, making it imperative that the person making the decisions actually know and understand that element. The expert on mundane affairs, whose advice is needed on such things as insurance, tax filings, contracts, etc., should be a vice-president. This will allow the mundane advice to be adapted to the Society's unique structure and customs, rather than forcing the Society to change drastically to adapt to a mundane mold. We exist as a Society to engage in medieval re-creations. Any change which would seriously alter our ability to do this must be viewed from a medieval perspective first and foremost, and not simply as being typical of a mundane corporation. One idea which has been proposed is to turn over many of the Corporate administrative functions -- the Registry, the Stock Clerk, the bookkeeping -- to a professional association management firm. A rough estimate showed considerable savings over what we are currently paying for these functions. However, before we can evaluate the benefit of such a suggestion, we must thoroughly investigate the firm, the services it can actually offer, and obtain a solid projection of the cost. Right now we have too little information to tell if this is a truly good idea, or just an exercise in wishful thinking. FINANCING THE CORPORATION Before we can really discuss how to fund the Corporation, we must determine what it's financial needs really are. The financial accounting mentioned above must be given to us, with a full, detailed budget request. Without knowing exactly what our current fiscal situation is we cannot make any rational decisions about future funding. IF, after reviewing the accounts and the budget, we determine that there is a need for increased income to the Corporation, we can decide on a means of getting that income which is fair to all members. Most of us believe that mandatory membership is undesirable. Using numbers supplied by the former chairman of the Board, it seems the Board was willing to lose over half the people currently involved in the Society. This is too drastic a change to be accepted. We do not wish to force ANY of our friends out of the Society. IF an increase in corporate revenue SHOULD be needed, there are several possible ways to obtain it. A modest increase in the subscription rates is one method. Another possibility is a fee of $1 per head at all regular events (not including demos, meetings, or practices). This could raise quite a lot of money, but could also add considerably to the individual member's personal expense if he/she attends a great number of events. An alternative to this would be a tithe from each event of a certain amount or percent of the event's income. This could put a severe strain on the budgets of small groups, and, if passed on to the attendees, would again increase the individual member's cost. Other options for raising funds are also possible, but we must first determine that these extra funds are really needed. We should not be increasing our personal expenses for unnecessary corporate expenditures, nor be creating permanent fees to cover temporary fluctuations in the corporate budget. CONCLUSION We make these proposals in the hope that they will help restructure the corporate part of the Society so that it can continue to help us enjoy our medieval activities. We do not claim to have the final answers to all these matters. We welcome your suggestions to improve the answers we do have, and to help us find good solutions to the problems that are still unanswered. We believe that the Society, and the Corporation, can best be saved by working within the existing framework. We do not think that it is necessary to tear everything down and rebuild the structure from scratch. To do so might well prove disastrous to the whole Society. If you wish to see the Corporation reformed, write to the Board with your recommedations, and not just your complaints. Be polite, and explain the reasons for your suggestions. Write to us, as well, so that we can add your opinions to ours. The more ideas we all share about these matters, the better our ideas will all become, and the clearer our reasoning. This reform process will take a long time. Many of these proposals will be placed before the Board at its April meeting, but there is no guarantee that it will act on them immediately. Some of these ideas represent major changes in the way the Board and the Corporation work. It may take several months of letter writing to persuade the Board to adopt them. We must be patient with the Board. Only it can enact these changes, and it has a responsibility to act deliberately on major changes. We must also be diligent, and keep writing letters encouraging the Board to accept these reforms. A constant, CIVIL pressure will gain us more than rash and rude complaining. Written by Edward S. Tonry -- Master Rory O'Tomrair, Baron Carraig Ban, OP, Middle Kingdom, with the assistance and on behalf of the Committee Urging a Responsible Board: Charles Thomas Alderson -- Baron (Ret.) Aldred von Lechsend aus Froschheim, OP, -- Caid Bambi Wimett -- Alisoun MacCoul of Elphane -- Atlantia Terry L. Neill -- Anarra Karlsdottir -- West Marshal A. Taylor -- Antonius Tesel, Baron of Starkhafn -- Caid Bruce Probst -- Decion ap Dyfrwr Trefriw -- Lochac, West Clayton Neff -- Duncan Bruce of Logan -- Calontir Bruce D. Sinclair -- Duncan Mac na Ceardadh -- East Peter M. Ellis -- Gavin Kilkenny of Kilcarren -- East Glenn E. Overby II -- Giovanni Fontananera -- Middle Kenneth J. Mayer -- Master Hirsch von Henford, OL, OP, Vesper Principal Herald -- West Janet M. D'Agostino-Toney -- Janet the Nameless -- West John L. Vifian -- Jean Louis de Chambertin -- An Tir John Radcliffe -- John FitzWiliam -- Caid Kevin Connery -- Keradwc an Cai -- West Rex Deaver -- Mathurin Kerbusso -- Calontir M.I. Morey -- Baroness Morgan Alanna Morcheartaigh -- Trimaris Phillip C. Reed -- Phillip the Pilgrim -- Middle Don Humberson -- Ragnar Ketilsson -- East Wanda Pease -- Mistress Regina Romsey, OL, OP, 5th Viscountess Drachenwald -- An Tir Laurie A. Hupman -- Rose de LeMans -- West Martin T. Higgins -- Thomas Hickson -- East Jonathan E. Feinstein -- Yosef Alaric -- East From nordmark-request Wed Apr 6 16:50:56 1994 Received: from uswat.advtech.uswest.com (firewall-user@uswat.advtech.uswest.com [130.13.16.1]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA10136 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 1994 16:50:48 +0200 Received: from atqm.advtech.uswest.com by uswat.advtech.uswest.com with SMTP id AA07184 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 6 Apr 1994 08:46:09 -0600 Message-Id: <199404061446.AA07184@uswat.advtech.uswest.com> Date: 6 Apr 1994 08:43:20 U From: "Guy Wells" Subject: News Release 4/94 from Boar To: "antir" , "calontir" , "Carolingia" , "e5" , "nordmark" , "northshield" , "sca-reform" , "sca-west" Status: RO News Release 4/94 from Board The executive director of the SCA requested that I post the following. I ask everyone seeing it to distribute it as you will. I will try to get it to sca-west, antir, etc. lists, but I ask that anyone with knowledge of other lists, please post the following there also. Thank you, Jalut ------------------------------------------------------------------- The Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc. P.O. Box 360743 - Milpitas, California 95036-0743 Tel: (408) 263-9305 - Fax: (408) 263-0641 _NEWS_RELEASE_ FROM THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS OF THE SOCIETY FOR CREATIVE ANACHRONISM, INC. FOR RELEASE ON APRIL 1, 1994 PETITION FOR WRIT OF MANDATE (Cellio v. SCA) FILED IN SANTA CLARA SUPERIOR COURT A legal action, Petition for a Writ of Mandate, was filed against the Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc., on March 24, 1994 and amended on March 25, 1994. The Petition was filed in Santa Clara County, California -- the County in which the SCA maintains its corporate office. A hearing has been scheduled for Thursday, May 5, 1994. The Petitioners are seeking to have the court command the SCA to allow the petitioners and their attorneys to inspect and copy all books of account, minutes of Board meetings, membership lists, and any other records which the petitioners wish to see. SCA Legal Counsel has reviewed the Petition and has advised the Board that it is without merit and that the Court is expected to deny the petition. A formal response by the SCA to the Petition will be filed with the Court and oral arguments presented at the hearing. All members of the Board of Directors and Anthony Provine (Executive Director), Renee Signorotti (Registrar), and Victoria Tisdale (former Director) have been individually named as respondents in the case, but there is no request for a money damages award against any individual. The Society will incur legal expenses in order to defend itself in this proceeding. The only valid issue in this matter is whether California law requires the SCA to provide the records in question. The rights of members under SCA Bylaws (Article X) is not in question here. The SCA has complied with the Bylaws and responsibly discharged its obligations under them. The Board considers the filing of a lawsuit by the Petitioners to be unfortunate and regrettable. The Petitioners had been receiving information and cooperation from the Board and corporate office at the time the Petitioners were taking steps to file the Petition. The Board regrets that it is required to spend any amount of the Society's scarce resources to defend against this suit. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Again, the preceeding was not mine. I KNOW it's the SCA, Inc's, because it came out on their letterhead. I merely scanned it, and corrected the scanning hiccups. Jalut -- Guy M. Wells Disclaimer: My opinions are mine, no U S WEST Technologies one elses, and certainly not USWEST's! From nordmark-request Wed Apr 6 20:59:17 1994 Received: from A.NL.CS.CMU.EDU (A.NL.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.110.55]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA13169 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 1994 20:58:55 +0200 From: Marion.Kee@A.NL.CS.CMU.EDU Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 13:32-EDT To: sca-reform@mit.edu, antir@kwantlen.bc.ca, calontir@unl.edu, carolingia@bloom-beacon.mit.edu, e5@uriacc.uri.edu, nordmark@ludd.luth.se, northshield@stolaf.edu, sca-west@ecst.csuchico.edu MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at A.NL.CS.CMU.EDU Subject: Re: News Release 4/94 from Board Message-Id: <765653548/kee@A.NL.CS.CMU.EDU> In-Reply-To: "Guy Wells"'s mail message of 6 Apr 1994 08:43:20 U Status: RO Greeting from Marian Greenleaf to all on these lists: The "news release" from the Corporate Office is not signed by any particular individual or by the Board as individuals. Mr. Provine is the person who requested it be posted. He may or may not have written it. However, the contents of this release are entirely consistent with what we know of Mr. Provine's views and approach to his job. It contains a statement which I regard as an outright untruth, but which Mr. Provine is already on record as regarding as fact: >The SCA has complied with the Bylaws and responsibly discharged its >obligations under them. (1) In addition, I seriously question the following statements: >The Petitioners had been receiving information and cooperation from the >Board and corporate office at the time the Petitioners were taking steps >to file the Petition. (2) >The only valid issue in this matter is whether California >law requires the SCA to provide the records in question. (3) My comments: I regard (1) to be an outright falsehood on multiple grounds: a) The Board has NOT "responsibly discharged its obligations" in any general sense. If it had, we would not be in this pickle right now. It exercised a fiscal approach which was inadequate and did not meet its obligation of responsible behavior. It failed to live up to the duties entrusted to it of protecting the Society. Copora (NOT the Bylaws) states that the Board will publicize changes to the Society's governing documents in time to permit comment form the membership, "under normal circumstances". The circumstances went from "normal" to "emergency" via arbitrary means, and in great haste. There are plenty of grounds for concluding that the membership has been railroaded. Technical compliance with the governing documents of the Society has been in effect, but the spirit of those documents has been grossly violated in the current crisis. (I do not impute the actions of the Board to malice. I believe that some or all of the Board members were simply expected to function beyond their levels of expertise and competence.) b) To answer the specific claim made in (1), under the Bylaws the Board is obligated to make the Books of Account available to members. If, as the CoFrom nordmark-request Thu Apr 7 15:29:53 1994 Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA25521 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 1994 15:29:51 +0200 Received: from macpost.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP (5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA21850; Thu, 7 Apr 94 15:33:04 +0200 Subject: Legal petition to BoD To: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se Date: Thu, 7 Apr 94 15:30:04 +0200 Message-Id: <940407.153004.51825@macpost.lu.se> Varen h{lsade, Prath|gare. Med tanke p} det |verv{ldigande intresset som Nordmark visar f|r den p}g}ende krisen inom SCA vill jag inte belamra Prath|gen med material om densamma, men eftersom BoD tydligen har l}tit sprida "information" hit, kommer h{r en komplettering. Infobladet presenterar sig sj{lvt. (Inga senare nummer finns.) /Catrin >========================================================================== >REFORMATION INFORMATION: Spreading News on Reform to the Society 03/17/94 >========================================================================== > >Greetings gentles! This is the second issue of REFORMATION INFORMATION, a >semi-weekly on-line flyer to help keep people around the Known World up to >date on what's going on with the movements to reform the Corporation and >to make the Board more accountable to the people of the Society. It >will be published electronically on Monday and Thursday evenings, at least >at first, for the duration of the current situation. I hope that people >will print RefInfo out and take it along with them to practices and events >to help keep those who do not have electronic access up to date with the >progress of reform efforts. This flyer is designed to be 60 line pages >of no more than 74 characters in a monospaced font like Courier so that it >may be easily edited and printed on a few sheets by almost any computer >system. Please feel free to pretty it up if you'd like before circulating! > >RefInfo is always looking for news about how things are going with the >various efforts on reform. If you have information to share about any >activities in your area, please send it along! We can all coordinate >our efforts better if we know what other groups and areas are doing. >Please send information, comments, etc. to my email-id, noted at the end. > >Many thanks, friends. My best -- Bertram of Bearington, Editor: RefInfo >+------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > >CALIFORNIA SUPERIOR COURT CALLED UPON TO OPEN SCA INC.'S BOOKS >After seven weeks of fruitless efforts to review the SCA's financial >records, Monica Cellio (Mistress Ellisif Flakkari) and several others -- >including the editor of this newsletter -- have engaged an attorney to >petition the Superior Court of Santa Clara County (where Milpitas is >located) to compel the SCA, Inc. to obey its own ByLaws and make its >financial records available. This is NOT a suit for damages, merely for >the SCA to follow its own rules. The ByLaws of the SCA, Inc. state in >Article X: "The books of account may be inspected by any member or >member's agent, for any reasonable purpose at any reasonable time." > >Here is a chronology of what led up to this action. On January 27, 1994 >Monica faxed a request to the Corporate office to review the books of >account. On February 28, she received a form to fill out and return >specifying exactly what materials were being sought and when she or her >agent would be available to see them, sent by the Executive Director. >Monica replied by fax on March 1 with a request for access to certain key >financial records on either March 2, March 4, or March 8. On March 8th, >having received no response to her return of the form, Monica faxed a >letter to the Executive Director in which she stated: "Because this >request is time-sensitive and because I have been waiting for more than >five weeks already, please name a time within the next 24 hours (before >4:30pm EST March 9, 1994) at which this inspection can be conducted by >my agent at your office in Milpitas. If you do not do so, I will file >suit to obtain the information." On March 10, Monica's legal agent went >to the corporate office in Milpitas to make the request in person. At >that time the Executive Director denied the request and handed the agent a >letter addressed to Monica, which read: "This is to inform you that your >request to inspect the SCA's books of account is respectfully declined." >This letter was dated February 8, a full 20 days _before_ the Executive >Director faxed Monica a request for additional information. Monica had >not, at that time, ever received any such letter. Following this steps >were taken to engage an attorney to ask the Court to compel the SCA, Inc. >to make the books available. (More to come in the next issue of RefInfo.) >MESSAGE FROM DUKE FLIEG, WEST KINGDOM << START PAGE TWO HERE >> > Today a step was taken which may be as momentous and significant as that >taken by the Board of Directors at their meeting of 22 January. A small >group of SCA folk got tired of being denied their rights by the SCA office >in Milpitas and have filed a suit to force the Board to reveal the finan- >cial records of the SCA, as required by their own By-Laws. > This action was taken by people who think they are doing the right >thing. You may or may not agree. However, as the reaction to this step >spreads, please remember, even more than before, that we are an honorable >society and a chivalrous one. Please address the actions and the reasons >for the actions, not the character of those who took the actions. > Someone on one of the forums said that if we went to 20th C. actions >that we lost our moral high ground. Someone else said that chivalry and >courtesy weren't necessary in terms of 20th C. actions. I think that both >of these gentles are wrong. We can use the tools of 20th C. justice with- >out being tainted by them; as long as we use them in an honorable way. We >are ourselves; if we are chivalrous and honorable people, then we can be >so in the 20th C. as well as in the Current Middle Ages. How one uses a >tool depends on the attitude with which one picks it up. > As I look back on the last two months (almost) I see people reacting in >all sorts of different ways. I also see people doing things. I see support >and argumentation. But mostly I see this carried out with a love for the >SCA that all of us share, whatever our viewpoints. As the two-month mark >approaches, hold to that love, and strive always to make the SCA better. > Thank you for your attention -- Frederick of Holland, MSCA, OP, etc. > (and dinosaur) flieg@garnet.berkeley.edu | Bitnet try: flieg@ucbgarne > >EASTREALM PUTS THE ICING ON THE CAKE >At the Mudthaw event recently held in the East, Baroness Merlynia made two >subtleties. One was in the form of a scroll, labelled "Magna Carta", and >made of Boston cream pie. The other was in the form of a blue tyger (the >East's totemic beast) lying atop a pile of gold coins and holding in its >mouth a scroll labelled "BOD minutes." Subtle comments, much appreciated. > >IMPEACHMENT PETITIONS >It's time to send in the Impeachment petitions. They are due in by this >coming Tuesday, the 22nd, so it is time to put your copies in the mail. > >WHAT CAN I DO TO HELP? >Get informed. Help others get informed. Discuss these issues at meetings. >Send in your impeachment petitions. Write your Royalty to tell them you >share their commitment to reform or hope that they will soon become com- >mitted to reform and to making the Board more accountable. Keep writing to >the Board. (Their addresses are below, *=New). Keep your spirits up! > A. J. Riviezzo, 2323 South Troy #210-D, Aurora, CO 80014 (CHAIRMAN) > L. Jane Richards, 2925 South 7th Street West, Missoula, MT 59801-2021 > Randall Tatro, 164 Everest Road, Milton, VT 05468 > *Elizabeth Johnson, 7875 Wintercress Lane, Springfield, VA 22152 > *Eric Mohr, PO Box 59821, Renton, WA 98058 > *John Fulton, 2494 Hollins, Memphis, TN 38112 > The SCA, Inc., Corporate Sec'y, P.O. Box 360743, Milpitas, CA 95036-0743 > >HOW CAN I GET MORE INFORMATION? >If you are able to use a retrieval program called 'ftp' you can get copies >of a large number of documents pertaining to the current crisis from an >anonymous ftp site: nimbus.gp.cs.cmu.edu directory: /usr/kvs/pub/BoD/ . >If you can't get copies via ftp you are welcome to send mail to the editor >of RefInfo and he'll send back a collection of documents. Contact him at: >+------------------------------------------------------------------------+ >Bertram of Bearington * Dave Schroeder * dschroeder@cmu.edu * 412/731-3230 Janna.Spanne@Kansli.LTH.se From nordmark-request Thu Apr 7 18:35:06 1994 Received: from meryl.csd.uu.se (meryl.csd.uu.se [130.238.11.31]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA28100 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 1994 18:35:05 +0200 Received: by meryl.csd.uu.se id AA16339 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Thu, 7 Apr 1994 18:35:02 +0200 Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 18:35:02 +0200 Message-Id: <199404071635.AA16339@meryl.csd.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: Census From: Sender: vader@csd.uu.se X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: RO Jo jag ville bara meddela att Nordmarks census nu faktiskt existerar i den fysiska verkligheten. Jag beklagar livligt att det tagit s} enorm tid att f} den till st}nd. SUCK. N{r ett flertal f|rseningar staplas p} varandra blir det en l}ng f|rsening. S} blir det n{r flera personer med stark f|rseningstendens {r inblandade i processen. Nu kan man i alla fall best{lla genom att kontakta v}r nya kass|r Marie Hallman, betala in 20 pix p} Nordmarks pg eller kontakta mig och sv{ra p} heder och blod att man {r en hederlig m{nniska. Vid best{llning av 10+ ex f}r man ett extra gratis. William From nordmark-request Fri Apr 8 08:42:21 1994 Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA08220 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 1994 08:42:18 +0200 Received: from macpost.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP (5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA20363; Fri, 8 Apr 94 08:45:30 +0200 Subject: Re: Handout on the Press Release To: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se Cc: jaymin@salmon.maths.tcd.ie From: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 08:42:31 +0200 Message-Id: <940408.084231.52025@macpost.lu.se> Status: RO >Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 16:27:14 -0800 (PST) >From: "Flieg Hollander" >Reply-To: flieg@garnet.berkeley.edu >To: >Subject: Handout on the Press Release > >This is the text of the News Release together with some commentary and an >editorial on my part. In Times Roman 12 point it neatly fits on two sides >of a single page. Might be useful for handing out at events. > >BOARD NEWS RELEASE > >[[ The following item was posted to the Rialto and to other electronic >bulletin boards on 5 April 1994. The person who posted it received it from >the Executive Director, Mr. Provine. Despite the official date there is no >reason to believe that it is a joke. It has been reformatted but the wording >and paragraphing has not been changed -- Frederick of Holland, 7 April 1994 >]] > > >The Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc. >P.O. Box 360743 - Milpitas, California 95036-0743 >Tel: (408) 263-9305 - Fax: (408) 263-0641 > >_NEWS_RELEASE_ > >FROM THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS OF THE SOCIETY FOR CREATIVE ANACHRONISM, INC. > >FOR RELEASE ON APRIL 1, 1994 > >PETITION FOR WRIT OF MANDATE (Cellio v. SCA) FILED IN SANTA CLARA SUPERIOR >COURT > >A legal action, Petition for a Writ of Mandate, was filed against the Society >for Creative Anachronism, Inc., on March 24, 1994 and amended on March 25, >1994. The Petition was filed in Santa Clara County, California -- the County >in which the SCA maintains its corporate office. A >hearing has been scheduled for Thursday, May 5, 1994. The Petitioners are >seeking to have the court command the SCA to allow the petitioners and their >attorneys to inspect and copy all books of account, minutes of Board >meetings, membership lists, and any other records which the >petitioners wish to see. > >SCA Legal Counsel has reviewed the Petition and has advised the Board that it >is without merit and that the Court is expected to deny the petition. A >formal response by the SCA to the Petition will be filed with the Court and >oral arguments presented at the hearing. All members of the Board of >Directors and Anthony Provine (Executive Director), Renee Signorotti >(Registrar), and Victoria Tisdale (former Director) have been individually >named as respondents in the case, but there is no request for a money damages >award against any individual. > >The Society will incur legal expenses in order to defend itself in this >proceeding. The only valid issue in this matter is whether California law >requires the SCA to provide the records in question. The rights of members >under SCA Bylaws (Article X) is not in question here. The SCA has complied >with the Bylaws and responsibly discharged its obligations under them. > >The Board considers the filing of a lawsuit by the Petitioners to be >unfortunate and regrettable. The Petitioners had been receiving information >and cooperation from the Board and corporate office at the time the >Petitioners were taking steps to file the Petition. The Board regrets that it >is required to spend any amount of the Society's scarce resources to defend >against this suit. > > >((The posting was not "signed" by anyone except the person who was forwarding >the message.)) > >!COMMENTARY ON THE NEWS RELEASE > > There are several important things that I feel you should know about >this News Release. > First, according to a reported conversation of the Middle Kingdom >Chronicler with the SCA Executive Director, this release was written by the >Executive Director, Mr. Provine, not directly by the Board of Directors. > Second, as of Wednesday afternoon at least one Director, Randall Tatro, >had not seen the complete text of the News Release. It is therefore not >clear to what extent this text actually represents the wishes of the Board of >Directors of the SCA, Inc. > Third, this represents the first time that the SCA Board of Directors >has used the electronic media in any official way to disseminate information >to the membership, to the best of my knowledge. In doing this, Mr. Provine >may have violated the Board's procedures on electronic communications, which >state (approximately) that electronic communications may not be used as the >primary means of communication from the Board to the membership. If this >release were also sent out at the same time to a larger mailing list of >Seneschals and Royalty for copying and dissemination, then this is not a >procedural problem, but the first that anyone heard of it was on the net, as >an explicit request-to-post from Mr. Provine. > --Frederick of Holland -- 7 April 1994 > >EDITORIAL >--Frederick of Holland -- 7 April 1994 > I would like to make a couple of comments about the sense of the >release. I feel that it is misleading in thrust and that some of the >statements are contrary to what I perceive as fact. > The first paragraph is true, as far as I know. It certain matches what >I have been told by those involved in the Petition. > The second paragraph leads off with a statement attributed to the SCA's >counsel. The lawyer representing the petitioners obviously feels >differently. The determination of the case is what will decide who was >correct in his judgement. A lawyer's opinion is only that -- an opinion. > In addition, contrary to the statement in the third paragraph, one of >the major issues in the Petition is whether or not the Directors of the SCA, >Inc. should be required to obey their own By-Laws, specifically Article X. >Further contrary to the assertion of the News Release, none of the people who >have been asking for access to the books of record (as explicitly allowed in >Article X of the By-Laws) have been allowed this access. In fact Mr. Provine >has been continuously obstructive of the attempts of these people to obtain >financial records. I fail to see that this corresponds to "...responsibly >discharged its obligations..." > Finally, and most importantly, the News Release implies that the Board >has no choice but to spend our money to take this Petition to court and to >fight it. > This is poppycock. > If the Executive Director and the Board of Directors had been truly >cooperative from the beginning, this Petition would not exist. Even now, it >is not necessary for them to lay out one cent to fight this Petition. All >they have to do is release the material for which they have been asked, and >which is rightfully due the petitioners under Article X of the By-Laws. This >will not cost them anything. Only the apparent determination to keep this >information out of the hands of the membership is costing them anything. It >will only cost money to fight the Petition because they have decided to fight >the Petition. Up to, and even past the time that the Petition was filed, the >petitioners were trying to reach an agreement with the Board on this matter. >They were not getting "...cooperation from the Board and corporate office..." >except in the smallest and most grudging bits, and then apparently only >because they were preparing to file the Petition. > I may add that the petitioners I have spoken with regard the filing of >the Petition as "unfortunate and regrettable." It also appears to have been >necessary. > > * * * Frederick of Holland, MSCA, OP, etc. > *** *** *** back at: flieg@garnet.berkeley.edu > _|___|___|_ > |===========| > (((Flieg Hollander, Chem. Dept., U.C. Berkeley))) > ================== Old Used Duke ================= Janna.Spanne@Kansli.LTH.se From nordmark-request Fri Apr 8 10:11:03 1994 Received: from columba.udac.uu.se (columba.UDAC.UU.SE [130.238.4.133]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA09331 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 1994 10:11:02 +0200 Received: from lobster.hsc.uu.se by columba.udac.uu.se with SMTP id AA25332 (5.67b8/IDA-1.4.4 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Fri, 8 Apr 1994 10:11:01 +0200 Received: from [130.238.165.74] (enkrihi.ENGELSKA.UU.SE) by lobster.hsc.uu.se with SMTP id AA02045 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Fri, 8 Apr 1994 10:10:56 +0200 Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 10:10:56 +0200 Message-Id: <199404080810.AA02045@lobster.hsc.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Kristina.Hildebrand@engelska.uu.se Subject: CURB proposal X-Charset: LATIN1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: RO >Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 16:01:16 -0400 >From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Joshua Mittleman) >To: sca-reform@MIT.EDU >Subject: CURB proposal >Reply-To: mittle@watson.ibm.com >X-External-Networks: yes >X-Charset: MACINTOSH >X-Char-Esc: 29 > > >Greetings from Arval! > >I have read the reform proposal from CURB with considerable interest. It >offers an interesting range of ideas for consideration. I am delighted to >see that other groups are offering their ideas; it is vital that the Board >know that the call for reform comes from the entire Society, not just a few >pockets of activism. > >The specific proposals offered by CURB seem to me to be dangerously flawed >in one important way. Accountability meams that _any_ central power must >be formally accountable to the populace and the kingdoms. Accountability >for the directors alone is not enough; if substantial power is to be >shifted to the corporate officers, then they too must be made explicitly >accountable and their power must be circumscribed in precisely the same >ways as the Board's. Those officers do not own the Society any more than >the directors. Both the legislature and the executive must be answerable >to the people. The alternative is the sort of abuse of authority that now >rears its ugly head in the threats to remove seneschals in Ansteorra and >BMDL for legitimate complaint against illegal procedure on the part of the >corporation. > > Arval. > >[This posting may be re-distributed in toto to any SCA forum; please inform >me of any re-posting.] > >=========================================================================== >Arval d'Espas Nord mittle@watson.ibm.com > > From nordmark-request Fri Apr 8 16:19:51 1994 Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA13234 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 1994 16:19:49 +0200 Received: from macpost.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP (5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA07168; Fri, 8 Apr 94 16:23:05 +0200 Subject: Re: Sedalia Threatens Ansteorran Seneschal To: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 16:20:03 +0200 Message-Id: <940408.162003.52449@macpost.lu.se> Status: RO BAKGRUND: H{nt p} andra sidan Atlanten. Tv} lokala drotsar har f|rklarat att regeln om obligatoriskt medlemskap, och s{ttet p} vilket det har antagits, strider mot SCA:s stadgar, och att de inte har f|r avsikt att f|lja den om och n{r den ska oms{ttas i praktiken. SCA:s drots, Duchess Sedalia, har till f|ljd av detta hotat dem med avs{ttning, trots att sj{lva sakfr}gan om pay-to-play {r l}ngt ifr}n avgjord och kommer att tas upp p} BoD:s m|te den 16 april. Marian O'Liam f|rsvarar henne i ett inl{gg som Lord Tibor h{r svarar p}. Han s{ger intressanta ting om personligt ansvar som g{ller oss alla, {mbetsm{n eller inte, med tanke p} den kompakta tystnad som har r}tt och r}der kring BoD-krisen h{r i Drachenwald och Nordmark. Med Lord Tibors ben{gna tillst}nd, l{s och fundera. /Catrin >From: schuldy@zariski.harvard.edu (Mark Schuldenfrei) >Subject: Re: Sedalia Threatens Ansteorran Seneschal >To: MMS6824@tntech.edu >Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 11:43:23 -0400 (EDT) >Cc: sca-reform@MIT.EDU > >I have chosen to answer Marian's note here, merely because I think it >generalizes to all officers under the Board. If the discussion begins to >descend to individuals again, let's take it to email > >Marian O'Liam wrote about Sedalia, her friend: > Right now she has one of the most thankless jobs in the SCA. She has to > do what she is told by the Board and by Tony Provine, whether she agrees with > them or not. As an officer of the Society, she can have no PUBLIC personal > opinion of any Society controversy. All she can say is what she is told to > say by the SCA, Inc. All she can do is what the SCA, Inc. allows her to do. > How many of us could work within those constraints. I don't know what goes > on within the private Board meetings, and neither does anyone else here. For > all you know she could have explained to each board member in grim and > graphic detail just how this will rip the SCA apart, but she can't publicly > discuss any of it while she holds her current position. > > She could have quit right after this mess hit the fan, but she chose > (like the rest of us who renewed our memberships) to try to work within the > system. > >No officer in the Society can be gagged, nor should they be. Ones actions >as a servant of the Society should be what is controlled and judged, not >ones words. > >As a fencing marshall, for example, I bitterly oppose the rules for testing >armor. I may do so, and write letters, and cavil the rules, so long as I >enforce them. Open discussion on points of disagreement is how our rules >evolve. > >It is the duty of fidelity to the organization, to question abuses of power >or errors in interpretation. The higher you go, the stronger that standard >should weigh upon you. > >Neither of those Senschals have violated a single rule or policy. They have >chosen to announce that the policies of the SCA have been adopted in ways >counter to the rules of the organization, and that *when* those rules are >enforced, they shall not enforce them. I believe that this is the essence >of moral fiber. > >If Sedalia, or anyone, acts to quash dissent or discussion, they are taking >control of our game in a truly vicious manner. Perhaps you all don't >remember Kitty Genovese (a woman who was raped and murdered, over the course >of an hour, in the center of an apartment complex while people watched from >the windows. She screamed the whole time, but no one called for help). I >choose not to watch passively, and I applaud those who do not. To punish >those who blow the whistle is to create a system where repression is king. > >ANYONE who simply soldiers on in the face of repression, loves the job more >than morality. Since the vice-president and Society Seneschal has no >control over the Board, she should make her opposition in the open. *If >anyone fails to discuss, and removes those who challenge and discuss, they >are, at best, guilty of failure to think. > >How this lesson applies to those of us who want to see reform flourish, is a >discussion worth having, I think. > > Tibor Janna.Spanne@Kansli.LTH.se From nordmark-request Fri Apr 8 17:29:43 1994 Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA13947 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 1994 17:29:40 +0200 Received: from macpost.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP (5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA10308; Fri, 8 Apr 94 17:32:56 +0200 Subject: Burning the Village To: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 17:29:55 +0200 Message-Id: <940408.172955.52508@macpost.lu.se> Status: RO >From: schuldy@zariski.harvard.edu (Mark Schuldenfrei) >Subject: Burning the Village >To: sca-reform@MIT.EDU (SCA Reform) >Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 10:58:43 -0400 (EDT) > >[I have been working in this document for quite some time. I have chosen to >send it now, rather than putter with it some more. It will also appear on >the Rialto, and I wouldn't mind a bit if it gets cross-posted to CIS] > >Saving our Only Society, an essay and opinion by Lord Tibor of Rock Valley. > >The Directors obviously had a lot of pressure on them at the January 22nd >meeting. It is becoming apparent to us all, that the SCA, Incorporated was >in a lot more trouble than the membership thought. Much of the material >evidence is circumstantial or second-hand, but it adds to a very damning >picture. > > o There have been whispered warnings by IRS employees to their friends > (Baroness Bronwyn and a confidential source), > > o Confidences repeated by a close associate of former Director and Chairman > Tim Moran (Lady Gwynnyd). > > o Director Randall Tatro referred to a request to inspect the books as an > attempt to destroy the Society, and the Chairman of the Board > (Liz Johnson) would rather abrogate her word than obey the bylaws. > > o The Executive Director (Tony Provine) has dropped purposeful hints to me > about the incredibly poor bookkeeping, > > o we know that tens of thousands of dollars were misappropriated by > L. James Stewart (Board Minutes), > > o the IRS 990 forms for fiscal 1992 are being revised (A.J. Riviezzo). > > o At least two people have mentioned that for various good reasons, they > intend to report violations of IRS regulations to the IRS > (Baroness Bronwyn and Francis Ney). > >Something big is up. We, the members, do not know what, and are being >blocked in our quest for information. We can discern something about the >magnitude of the problem from the Director's behavior. The financial >committee meeting ran hours over, and the resulting decisions were clearly >ill thought, and unpopular. > >Another action is even more telling. Liz Johnson offered to settle the >question of access to the bylaws, and sign a court settlement. She raised >this to the Board at a telephone meeting, and was not opposed (according to >two different Directors called just after the meeting ended). Later that >night, one of the Directors called Liz, and told her something: we don't >know what. But she changed her mind about the settlement. What did she >learn? > >Is there a simpler explanation other than a need to hide a problem of >threatening proportions? Randall has not only called access to the books >a means to destroy the Society, but has claimed that to insist on access >"could force the board into a position of defending a policy that in my >opinion it does not want to defend." > >What is wrong? We don't know. Neither do we know the extent of the damage, >nor how much of it was willful as opposed to negligent. I think it is safe >to assume that the information being hidden is, as Randall claims, of a >magnitude that its exposure would be a threat to the Society. > >In the face of some nameless, but significant threat, there are two things >we can discuss. One is what the Directors should be doing, and the other is >what they have done. > >The Directors need to inform the appropriate authorities. It is their >responsibility as Directors of a Corporation, and it is in the best >interests of the Society. It is inevitable sooner or later, that the >authorities will find out what is going on. Enforcement of the law will be >harder on us than if we ask for assistance with conforming to it. > >There are a number of normally used mechanisms for resolving fiscal problems >of all kinds. There are administrative and legal mechanisms for solving even >the most acute of errors, which are exercised every day. Even in the worst >case, where the correct thing to do is dissolve the Society, it can be >handled such that your average member is virtually unaffected. However, we >lose control over those options if we wait for the authorities to come to >us. > >We also need to examine what the Directors have done. What they have done is >lose track of the big picture, the real purpose of the corporation. From >my philosophical easy chair, I have always seen a dichotomy between the >Corporation and the Society. The Society is the informal network of >customs, friendship and volunteerism that makes our organization great. > >The Corporation is a tool which we use to give our Society its place in the >mundane world. While, in philosophical discussions we can make the case >that we could live without it, the truth of the matter is, we don't want to. >Life in the real world is so much easier with a functioning Corporation. > >And, during good times, there is only a philosophers delight in worrying >about the difference. Now, we are in bad times, and we need to open our >eyes. > >The Directors have chosen to preserve the Corporation at the expense of the >Society. They have changed the way the game is played. They have confused our >recreations with the Corporation, and made it omnipresent. They have done so >against with the full knowledge that this change was bad for recreation, >against the wishes of the membership, and did so brutally. > >They have hiked the rates, and are concentrating higher levels of funding than >ever before at the hands of people who cannot manage them. At the same time, >they have removed any vestige of participant oversite, refusing access to >financial information that is supposed to be open, and ending reporting of >the goings on at the Board level. > >By doing so, they have also revealed a truth that was previously hidden, and >which does not sit well with the populace. The Society has no control over >the corporate tool. The Directors answer to no one, impeachment is an empty >gesture. Their stonewalling and refusals to cooperate have shown us how >impotent we are. All positions of legal responsibility within the Society >(save one) have now been consolidated within the Board of Directors. They >have, in every analysis, taken the Corporation away from The Society. And >now they are taking the Society away from us. > >Corporations come and go in this world. We may not be allowed to keep ours, >if the worst case of IRS or State involvement occurs. But to the best of >our knowledge, the Directors have acted in ways not in our best interests. >They have not settled with the IRS or Attorney General over the >missapropriation of funds (for those would be matters of public record or >have been in previous minutes). > >The Corporation has already damaged our Society, even if all the decisions >of January 22nd were reversed. I believe that the Board should disclose the >extent of the financial improprieties fully and completely, reassure the >mundane authorities that we are instituting changes in fiscal controls, and >act to preserve the Society over the Corporation. In the most extreme case, >I believe the Directors could even assist in the creation of a new >Corporation, transfer the Society smoothly to it, and resolve old problems >with the old Corporation and finally dissolve it. > >That too is what Corporations are for. Fiscal problems are handled all the >time in this way, and are one of the reasons for incorporating. If we wait >for mundane authorities to act first, we coul easily loose control over our >destiny or the Society as the Corporation is seized. While we almost >certainly would be able to rebuild the Society afterward, the trauma would >produce scars that would never heal. > >As I have said elsewhere, I believe the actions of the Corporation are >tantamount to Vietnam: "We had to burn the village in order to save it". >This is folly. > > Lord Tibor of Rock Valley Janna.Spanne@Kansli.LTH.se From nordmark-request Fri Apr 8 17:39:25 1994 Received: from math.harvard.edu (math.harvard.edu [128.103.28.10]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA14047 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 1994 17:39:24 +0200 From: schuldy@zariski.harvard.edu (Mark Schuldenfrei) Message-Id: <9404081537.AA22204@math.harvard.edu> Subject: Essay: Burning Down the Village To: north@bransle.ucs.mun.ca (north), carolingia@bloom-beacon.mit.edu (carolingia), sca-west@ecst.csuchico.edu, northshield@stolaf.edu, nordmark@ludd.luth.se, lgrant@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie, jaymin@maths.tcd.ie, e5@uriacc.uri.edu (Fifth Estate Mailing List), calontir@unl.edu, antir@kwantlen.bc.ca Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 11:37:18 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: schuldy@zariski.harvard.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 672 Status: RO I have written an essay which I think casts what the Board did at the January meeting in a different light. In the interests of less bandwidth, I have chosen to post it to sca-reform and Rialto, and simply place a pointer to it here. If you want a copy, please ask. (Comments on this distribution method as compared to normal wideband broadcast also appreciated). Please be careful when replying to this message, not to reply to all other lists unless that is your specific desire. Also, some lists force responses to go to the sending list (E5, especially.) Send private responses to schuldy@math.harvard.edu. Lord Tibor of Rock Valley (schuldy@math.harvard.edu) From nordmark-request Mon Apr 11 08:28:28 1994 Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA22659 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 1994 08:28:27 +0200 Received: from macpost.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP (5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA12939; Mon, 11 Apr 94 08:31:45 +0200 Subject: Re: From Where? to Where? To: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se Date: Mon, 11 Apr 94 08:28:46 +0200 Message-Id: <940411.082846.52780@macpost.lu.se> Status: RO >Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 15:54:03 -0700 (PDT) >From: Nigel Haslock >Subject: From Where? to Where? >To: sca-reform@MIT.EDU > >======================================================================= >It is raining here again which probably has nothing to do with the >tone of this prognostication, but it certainly echos the mood of it. > > >In the beginning there was a costume party. People had fun and wanted >more. When 'more' kept growing, someone decided that rules and a >corporation were needed. However, the corporation was designed to >counter a fear that 'someone else' would 'take over' the Society and thus >steal all of the fun. > >Most people are to busy having fun to be frightened of a takeover. Some >will confidently believe that even a takeover cannot take away fun. The >result is that the fearful get their way. > >Having got their way, the fearful continue to be full of fear and >dedicate themselves to protecting the Society from their fears. Fun >loving people dislike onerous jobs and are perfectly willing to let >someone else do it. Fearful people want to do the job so that they can be >reassured that the job is done in such a way as to reduce their fears. >This is usually expressed as "I want to make sure that it is done right." >It should be no surprise that the fearful gravitate to the top of the >bureaucracy. > >Twenty years later we have the current crisis. A board of largely fearful >people are trying to protect the society from their fears. The populace >has been indoctrinated for twenty years that these fears are valid and >that we really do need to be protected. > >Unfortunately, the latest set of fortifications are so restrictive that >numerous people are seeing their opportunities to have fun being shut >out. It seems that each revision of the defenses requires building new >defenses inside the old. Thus the space defended gets smaller and less >accessible. Not to mention that those defenses begin to look more and more >like prison walls. > >It is also not surprising that directors have felt betrayed by the uproar. >They were doing the best they could to protect the society and the >society suddenly tried to rip their heads off. Those who are left, and >the new members may be fearful for both themselves and the society. The >pressure to protect they society from both internal attack (i.e. the >reform activists) and potential external attack can only play on their >fears. > >The real question is that of what can be done to reduce their level of >fear and the equivalent fears of the rising stars of the bureaucracy. >Note that I see the same response to fear in the mindset of Kingdom, >Principality and regional seneschals. We need to make these people either >loose their fears or adopt and utterly different strategy for defending >against them. > >Any attempt at decentralization is going to trip their "but they can't be >trusted to do the job right" fear. Perhaps the answer is to define the >job so well and so simply that it cannot be done wrong. If the job of the >seneschallate and the directorship is reduced to oversight with only the >power to suspend the wielder of authority and responsibility then the fear >should go away (or transmute into suspicion of the executive branch). > >Attempts at accountability will run into the two fears "they don't know >enough to decide properly" and "we can't tell you anything because someone >might be able to use it against us". In oversight mode, it suddenly becomes >important to reveal everything to ensure that the populace will support the >whistleblower. > >Attempts at representation will run into the two fears "electioneering >will give authority to popular incompetents" and "the crowns will have >too much power". By making the board and the seneschal into a set of >watchdogs, we discourage the power hungry from applying. Consider how little >fuss is made over elections for a judge compared with the an equivalent >level executive. Consider also that electoral strategies in other >countries are engineered to minimize electioneering. England does this by >choking the time and money that can be put into a campaign. Parliament >is dissolved at the whim of the Prime Minister and elections take place >6 weeks later. The electoral commission limits the amount each candidate may >spend (get caught cheating and you lose regardless of the votes). > >I am not suggesting that we follow the English model. I am not suggesting >the elections are the right answer. I am suggesting that the evils of >electioneering can be contained. > >My conclusion is that a reform that is acceptable to the board will not >reduce the pattern of fear that got us into the current situation. I also >suspect that in a few short years all of the current causes of upset will be >slowly implemented. > >Reform that would restore the original party mindset will not be >acceptable to the board. Such reform could happen in response to open >revolt by large chunks of the populace or the breaking away of a number >of large kingdoms. There may be other solutions, but I suspect that they >will be incredibly difficult to implement because they involve radical >changes to the existing power structure. > >Perhaps there is a rainbow after the rain and perhaps there is a pot of >gold at the foot of the rainbow. I just hope that if someone finds it, they >will share it with the rest of us. > > Fiacha > > >p.s. There were my words freely given for you to read and pass on. I you >stir them up in the process, don't claim that they are mine any more. Janna.Spanne@Kansli.LTH.se From nordmark-request Mon Apr 11 11:37:12 1994 Received: from hplb.hpl.hp.com (hplb.hpl.hp.com [15.255.59.2]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA24976 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 1994 11:37:06 +0200 Received: from hpustoix.sweden.hp.com by hplb.hpl.hp.com; Mon, 11 Apr 1994 10:34:04 +0100 Received: by hpustoix.sweden.hp.com (1.36.108.7/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA05422; Mon, 11 Apr 1994 11:36:35 +0200 From: Morgan Broman Message-Id: <9404110936.AA05422@hpustoix.sweden.hp.com> Subject: (fwd) Attempts to remove Seneschals (fwd) To: jaymin@salmon.maths.tcd.ie (Drachenwald Mailing List) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 94 11:36:35 METDST Cc: nordmark@mother.ludd.luth.se (Nordmark mailing list (SCA)) Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25] Status: RO > > From: HAROLD.FELD@hq.doe.GOV > Newsgroups: rec.org.sca > Subject: Attempts to remove Seneschals > Date: 7 Apr 1994 10:41:19 -0400 > Organization: The Internet > Lines: 87 > Sender: news@athena.mit.edu > To: sca@mc.lcs.mit.edu > > Unto all who read these words, greetings from Yaakov. > > I will not, in this post, address the question of the > morality of attempting to remove an officer who refuses to > enforce a policy he believes illegal, or my personal > opinions of the sort of people who would carry out such > attempts. Suffice to say I consider these actions morally > repugnant and regard those who would carry out the > corporation's instructions in this regard as having no moral > courage whatsoever. > > But, as I say, I shall address these matters in a future > post. > > One poster has argued that Sedalia was merely 'doing her > job' as a corporate employee. As I have said, I shall not > address this 'I was only following orders' defense. Suffice > it to say for now that it burns my blood. > > I address the legal aspects of the recent actions of > Fredrick of Anstearoa and the Seneschal of the Barony Marche > of the Debatable lands (whose name, alas, I forget) in > defying the corporation's actions and the proposed > repraisals against them. > > The term for defying a perceived illegal action by one's > employer is called 'whistle blowing.' It is protected by > state and federal law. > > Fredrick is a lawyer, who practices in Texas and Oklahoma. > He made a legal determination that the corporation had acted > illegally in enacting it compulsory membership and advised > his king of this determination. I have confidence that > Fredrick is a competent attorney who did appropriate > research on the matter. > > His and Inamn's actions against the corporation are > privileged under the whistleblower statutes. Attempts to > remove them are retailiation, specifically barred by the > relevant statutes, and subject the corporation to legal > action. > > Mundanely, I am a hearing officer and attorney advisor for > the Department of Energy, Office of Hearings and Appeals. > Our Office has jurisdiction on all agency and contractor > whistleblower actions. If facts such as this situation came > before me in an official context, I have little doubt as to > how we would decide. > > A recent case we decided seems relavant, so I will cite it. > While I was not a hearing officer for this case, I was on > the staff that handled the matter here at headquarters. > > In University Research Association, Inc., Case No. LWA-0003 > (not yet published). The complainant was employed as a > phycisist and programmer at the Super Collider Laboratory in > TX. The Laboratory posses a hypercube computer (the > hypercube consists of processing nodes arranged in parrallel > configuration and allows certain simulations inportant to > the work done at the Laboratory). Access to the hypercube > was limited by the director of the MAchine Simulation and > Corrections group. From the testimony of the complainant > and others, it is clear that this director regarded the > hypercube as his personal playground and restricted access > according to whim. When the complainant complained about > this to his supervisor, he was fired. > > Held: The termination was illegal as a violation of the > DOE's whistleblower statute. It did not matter whether the > complainant's assertions regarding mismanagement were true. > That was not at issue. The determining factor is that the > complainant was fired for protesting the policy in question. > > These senschals made determinations and acted accordingly. > The corporation cannot fire them. At best, the corporation > can suspend them, with whatever benefits they would normally > have, while seeking an appropriate determination of their > allegations. Even this last is, in my opinion, questionable > under the existing laws and statutes. > > This post does not constitute an official opinion by the > Department of Energy or the Office of Hearings and Appeals. > The views expressed herein are soley the views of the > author. > > Yaakov HaMizrachi > HArold Feld -- HP : Morgan Broman mabr@sweden.hp.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- What is life, but a sequence of fragments of time put together in a random fashion, to create eternity... [R] Shade ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nothing stated here is an official statement by the Hewlett-Packard Corp. From nordmark-request Tue Apr 12 10:31:08 1994 Received: from hplb.hpl.hp.com (hplb.hpl.hp.com [15.255.59.2]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA11976 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 1994 10:31:01 +0200 Received: from hpustoix.sweden.hp.com by hplb.hpl.hp.com; Tue, 12 Apr 1994 09:27:54 +0100 Received: by hpustoix.sweden.hp.com (1.36.108.7/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA20152; Tue, 12 Apr 1994 10:30:42 +0200 From: Morgan Broman Message-Id: <9404120830.AA20152@hpustoix.sweden.hp.com> Subject: (fwd) Looking for Drachenwald Event in May (fwd) To: jaymin@salmon.maths.tcd.ie (Drachenwald Mailing List), nordmark@mother.ludd.luth.se (Nordmark mailing list (SCA)) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 10:30:41 METDST Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25] Status: RO > > Newsgroups: rec.org.sca > From: nostrand@bayes.math.yorku.ca (Barbara Nostrand) > Subject: Looking for Drachenwald Event in May > Organization: York University > X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] > Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 14:49:30 GMT > Lines: 12 > > Noble Cousins! > > I Solveig Throndardottir shall be going to a mathematics conference in > Oberwolfach (Black Forrest) in early May and would like to take in a > Drachenwald event or just meet other society folk while I am there. > I would of course also like to take in a castle or otherwise see > Germany as this will be my first (and perhaps only) visit to Europe. > > Your Humble Servant > Solveig Throndardottir > Totally Ignornat -- HP : Morgan Broman mabr@sweden.hp.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- What is life, but a sequence of fragments of time put together in a random fashion, to create eternity... [R] Shade ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nothing stated here is an official statement by the Hewlett-Packard Corp. From nordmark-request Tue Apr 12 15:03:30 1994 Received: from hplb.hpl.hp.com (hplb.hpl.hp.com [15.255.59.2]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA16268 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 1994 15:03:28 +0200 Received: from hpustoix.sweden.hp.com by hplb.hpl.hp.com; Tue, 12 Apr 1994 14:00:21 +0100 Received: by hpustoix.sweden.hp.com (1.36.108.7/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA10405; Tue, 12 Apr 1994 15:03:15 +0200 From: Morgan Broman Message-Id: <9404121303.AA10405@hpustoix.sweden.hp.com> Subject: (fwd) Campaign to enlarge Society Seneschal? (fwd) To: nordmark@mother.ludd.luth.se (Nordmark mailing list (SCA)) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 15:03:14 METDST Cc: 100040.134@compuserve.com (Mary Hickey) Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25] Status: RO From: hamizrachi@aol.COM Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Campaign to enlarge Society Seneschal? Date: 12 Apr 1994 08:23:51 -0400 Organization: The Internet Lines: 97 Sender: news@athena.mit.edu Message-ID: <9404120636.tn665994@aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bloom-beacon.mit.edu To: sca@mc.lcs.mit.edu Unto all who read these words, greetings from Yaakov. As the April BoD meeting approaches, I find myself dreading what will come. In particular, I fear an attempt to snow the membership with a pretense of 'change' without actually putting any teeth in it. I am particularly worried because I have heard that some folks, particularly Duke Gavin Kilkenny, are advocating that the surest way to insure reform is to centralize power in the hands of the Society Seneschal. When I last saw Gavin's postings on the subject, he kept neglecting to mention that the Society Seneschal at the moment is his wife, Duchess Sedalia. He continued to refuse to clarify this, despite public correction. I find the omission significant, as an augur of what sort of administration would follow. First, I have difficulties with the whole scheme. Absolute power corrupts, and I see no reason why one SCAdian in a position of authority is any better that seven SCAdians in positions of authority. The problems with a lack of accountability and centralization of authority go back to the days of the Stewards. Nor can I justify laying all of the current evils on Tony Provine. Frankly, Provine is an employee of the Board, doing the job he was hired to do. Firing him would cahnge nothing. The Board could have taken such action at any time. The Board deliberately chose to hire someone outside of the Society. The Board has refused to publically (or, to the best of my knowledge, privately) discipline Provine for his actions. Unless the Board acknowledges its mistakes and makes a concrete committment to member accountability, we have gained nothing. We will find ourselves in the same mess in a year or two, resources exhausted, with a Directorate far more learned in how to palm its changes off on the membership. If the appointment of any Society member to an office of such authority over the Society is dangerous, the appointment of the current Society Seneschal, Duchess Sedalia McNare, is a disaster of catastrophic proportions. I lived in the East Kingdom with Sedalia as Seneschal. In that time, the East saw a rapid rise in centralization of the bureacracy, especially as evidenced by the logorythmic growth of the Seneschal's policies in EK law, an attempt by the Sedalia to unilaterally impose term-limits on seneschals (halted only by massed popular uprising in several established baronies who informed her that they had absolutely no intention of allowing her to take away their beloved senschals), and a rise in the level of paperwork. These are *exactly* the wrong kind of changes the Society needs. Nor have her actions since becoming Society Seneschal done much to quiet these concerns. Since ascending to this office, she has consistently blocked the appointment of several canidates for EK seneschal because they proved unacceptable to *her.* She has also blocked the Canton of the Keep by the Endless Sea from going Barony. We *do not* need another micro-manager, who believes in interfering with local affairs to further a personal vision of what the Society should be. That some folks seriously contemplate making a person with a *proven* track level of increasing bureaucracy and centralization while diminishing accountability Empress of the Known World sends chills down my spine. That they have campaigned for it, in Gavin's case, without mentioning their own conflict of interest (indeed, refusing to clarify it when pressed) does not inspire to me to believe that they will disclose any financial information, or anything that does not suit them. Finally, we come down to Sedalia's personal actions over the last three months. She has acted vigorously to supress all organized resistance to the Board's January 22 policies which went beyond the simple and ineffective letter writing campaign. Her actions in attempting to remove senschals who have resisted the compulsory membership resolution demonstrate, *at best* a willingness to supress her own judgment about the morality of an action to carry out the will of the Board. *This* is the person we should trust to force the Board into accountability? I close with a true story that occurred to one Carolingian at Pennsic past (named witheld to protect privacy). It perhaps best illustrates the opinion of those who know Sedalia from having lived under her administartion. A Carolingian arrived at Pennsic on the first day and sought out the Carolingian campsite. It was located on a patch of ground between Cariodoc's Path, Fletcher's Road, and Sedalia's Way. Unfortunately this Carolingian had arrived before the gentle with the site map. Not wishing to wait, our hero studied the situation for a few minutes, thought about it, and set up in a far corner of the field. That evening the camp master finally arrived. This Carolingian and the camp master looked at the map, top see how much our hero needed to move. Much to the Camp master's surprise, our Hero had camped in precisely the right spot, down to the proper direction for the tent door! "But how on Earth could you have known?" Said the camp master. "This plot of land contains over 30 tent sites, scattered in different orientations. The odds of getting everything exactly right like this are well nigh impossible." "Luck had nothing to do with it," Replied our Hero. "I'm an old Carolingian, so I knew exactly what to do: I aligned myself with Cariodoc's Path and got as far out of Sedalia's Way as possible!" In Service to the Society, Yaakov From nordmark-request Thu Apr 14 15:31:32 1994 Received: from hplb.hpl.hp.com (hplb.hpl.hp.com [15.255.59.2]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA27522 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 1994 15:31:29 +0200 Received: from hpustoix.sweden.hp.com by hplb.hpl.hp.com; Thu, 14 Apr 1994 14:28:07 +0100 Received: by hpustoix.sweden.hp.com (1.36.108.7/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA12254; Thu, 14 Apr 1994 15:30:59 +0200 From: Morgan Broman Message-Id: <9404141330.AA12254@hpustoix.sweden.hp.com> Subject: (fwd) from Johan, seneschal Debatable Lands (fwd) To: nordmark@mother.ludd.luth.se (Nordmark mailing list (SCA)) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 15:30:59 METDST Cc: 100040.134@compuserve.com (Mary Hickey) Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25] Status: RO This is from the Rialto !! > Newsgroups: rec.org.sca > From: mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio) > Subject: from Johan, seneschal Debatable Lands > Sender: news@cs.cmu.edu (Usenet News System) > Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon > Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 05:00:53 GMT > Lines: 54 > > Hi folks, > >Johan von Traubenberg, Seneschal of BMDL, here. > >As of today (April 11), no written news re: my impending demise. > >I don't usually hang out on the net, since I'm very busy and the >signal-to-noise ratio of the net is rather low, but I was given hardcopy of >some of the comments generated by Ellisif's posting about me and felt the need >to reply. > >Item 1: The source of this directive seems to be the Executive director. > Please do not attack Sedelia or Lawrence on my account. Anyone familiar > with bureaucracies knows that the folks in the middle (i.e. Sedelia and > Lawrence) have very little wiggle room. > >Item 2: This is directed mostly to Hossein, but also applies to anyone >following his example. This whole matter is not a personal matter, it is >a legal/political one. DO NOT start making personal attacks. I am still, >as of last night, on quite civil terms with both Sedelia and Lawrence. I >expect that if they remove me as seneschal, we will remain on civil terms. >They are doing the same thing I am, to wit, the jobs they promised to do >as they believe they must. If I were in their shoes I might do the same >thing they are threatening. > Hossein, you owe me an apology for the associating my name with your >cowardly, mean spirited attacks on Sedalia. You obviously also owe her an >apology. She has heard/read your comments and is quite saddened by them. >I eagerly await your posting of these apologies, in the same forum that >you made the attack. If you can't find your way to doing this, perhaps we >will need to discus the matter in a more private and personal fashion at >some later date, say, at Pennsic? > >Item 3: I don't regard this as an act of Civil Disobedience. I regard it as a >simple act of obeying the law. > >Item 4: I believe that Marian must be mistaken in some of her report of what >Randall said. I have known Randall for many years and found him to be an >honorable man. I find it unlikely that he would counsel anyone to follow >the craven, dishonorable path he is reported to suggested. I refer, of >course, to the suggestion that a smart seneschal would quietly ignore the >Pay-TO-Play ruling and not make a fuss. Any Seneschal who did that would >be violating the trust s/he took up when s/he took the job and should >certainly be removed from office. If you don't protest it, you tacitly >agree that the ruling is legal and agree to enforce it. I am clearly >stating that the ruling is illegal and that I therefor CAN'T enforce it. > >Item 5: My personal philosophy is Lawful Neutral. You should not assume that > you know my beliefs or feelings from my official actions. > >In Service to the Society, >Johan From nordmark-request Thu Apr 14 16:24:34 1994 Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA28131 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 1994 16:24:33 +0200 Received: from macpost.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP(5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA18112; Thu, 14 Apr 94 16:14:16 +0200 Subject: Re: message from Johan To: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 16:11:18 +0200 Message-Id: <940414.161118.54902@macpost.lu.se> Status: RO >Date: 14 Apr 1994 09:04:50 U >From: Greg Dearborn >Subject: Re: message from Johan >To: Monica.Cellio@nl.cs.cmu.edu >Cc: SCA-Reform , vis@world.std.com > > Reply to: RE>message from Johan >Unto Mistress Ellisif, greetings from Gareth. > >Would you be so kind as to carry this Message to Johan? Many thanks! >y.s, g. > >---------------- >Unto Johan von Traubenberg does Gareth of Stonemarche send >warm greetings. > >I have read your letter that Mistress Ellisif posted. > >> Item 3: I don't regard this as an act of Civil Disobedience. >> I regard it as a simple act of obeying the law. > >As the person that suggested that your action was one of >Civil Disobedience, I sincerely appologize for playing >political commentator without checking with you first. > >I fancy myself a writer, but in fact often write things that >don't say exactly what I want them to convey. This is closer >to what I meant, and what I wish I posted originally: > >1. Johan and the other Seneschal informed their superiors > that they interpreted certain orders to be illegal, >and therefore could not follow them. > >2. I think Johan and the other Seneschal did the right thing. >It was exemplary behavior for people with their responsibilites. > >3. Their actions have a political meaning. > >4. Mistress Sedelia was doing her job by censuring the Seneschals. >If she didn't she would be remiss in her commitment to her office. > >5. Sedelia's action also has a political meaning. > >6. The meaning of 3 and 5 will be left as an exercise for the reader. >Bonus Points: Call them up and ask them yourself. [Note: I really >wish I did this first.] > >7. If the Board does not comply with Corpora and the Bylaws and thus >resolve the illegality of the rules, I hope more seneschals will >take step number 1. > >8. If 7 happens, I send my best wishes to Mistress Sedalia, as she >will be very busy. > >Johan, I hope you can forgive me for whatever transgressions >against you for which I am guilty. When it is all boiled away, maybe >I should have simply posted "Right on, Johan! Vivat! Vivat! Vivat!" > >Your Servant, >Gareth > Janna.Spanne@Kansli.LTH.se From nordmark-request Thu Apr 14 21:24:18 1994 Received: from math.harvard.edu (math.harvard.edu [128.103.28.10]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA02449 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 1994 21:24:17 +0200 From: schuldy@zariski.harvard.edu (Mark Schuldenfrei) Message-Id: <9404141922.AA20397@math.harvard.edu> Subject: Important legal information To: schuldy@zariski.harvard.edu Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 15:22:57 -0400 (EDT) Cc: north@bransle.ucs.mun.ca, carolingia@bloom-beacon.mit.edu, sca-west@ecst.csuchico.edu, northshield@stolaf.edu, nordmark@ludd.luth.se, lgrant@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie, jaymin@maths.tcd.ie, e5@uriacc.uri.edu, calontir@unl.edu, antir@kwantlen.bc.ca X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 762 Status: RO I have hired an attorney who has written an opinion letter which facilitates groups protecting their assets from the SCA, Inc. by separately incorporating. I would like to see this letter known, and made available, to every potentially interested person, especially seneschals and exchequers. In the interests of less bandwidth, I have chosen to post it to sca-reform and Rialto, and simply place a pointer to it here. If you want a copy, please ask. Please be careful when replying to this message, not to reply to all other lists unless that is your specific desire. Also, some lists force responses to go to the sending list (E5, especially.) Send private responses to schuldy@math.harvard.edu. Lord Tibor of Rock Valley (schuldy@math.harvard.edu) From nordmark-request Sun Apr 17 01:38:15 1994 Received: from gw1.att.com (gw1.att.com [192.20.239.133]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA08401 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 1994 01:38:12 +0200 Message-Id: <199404162338.BAA08401@mother.ludd.luth.se> From: hablutzelml@attmail.com (Margo Lynn Hablutzel ) Date: 16 Apr 94 23:26:19 GMT To: antir@kwantlen.bc.ca, sca-west@ecst.csuchico.edu, carolingia@bloom-beacon.mit.edu, calontir@unl.edu, nordmark@ludd.luth.se, northshield@stolaf.edu, e5@uriacc.uri.edu, sca-reform@mit.edu, jaymin@maths.tcd.ie, lgrant@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie, rgoff@mcimail.com, mms6824@tntech.edu Received: from hablutzelml by attmail; Sat Apr 16 23:26:19 GMT 1994 Phone: +1 312 220 9140 Fax-Phone: +1 312 220 9261 Subject: Board Meeting Results Content-Type: text Status: RO NEWS FROM THE BOARD MEETING: Just as was done at the January meeting, I am coming online as FAST as possible to inform the Greater Knowne Worlde of the events which have transpired. PLEASE cross-post this to every network and list you can hit; the word MUST get out! By a unanimous vote, the Board of Directors of the Society for Creative Anachronism has RESCINDED its decision to impose "pay-to-play" (Universal membership, mandatory membership), which had been decided at the January meeting. The Board has also established two new bodies, first the Interkingdom Advisory Committee, to consist of one member per Kingdom (initially) and which will advise the Board on issues of Corpora and the medieval aspects of the Society. The other entity is called the Grand Council of the Knowne Worlde, a group of 30-40 persons who will be charged with examining the fundamental aspects of the Society -- both the corporate/modern and the medieval sides -- and bringing to the Board suggestions for changes and adaptations. Further details will be forthcoming, probably within days. There are those present who have expressed their distrust in the Board's actions, and their concern that the actions taken will be mooted or held for naught by the actions of future Boards or others. To this end, I refer you to the words of His Majesty Stephan of the West, and His Majesty Inman of Ansteorra, as they answered one of the doubters. HRM Stephan pointed out that when the Board took actions in January with which we do not agree, we banded together to confront them. If we are displeased with the results, we can do so again. HRM Inman pointed out that the members of these committees will be the general membership, and we must trust ourselves to do what is right, or to bring our concerns back into the open, and at all times to keep open the lines of communication. We have made a great start. It should not be undermined by mistrust, which prevents one from working fully to achieve the goals we now have before us. There is still a lot of work to be done, and we all should commit to working with the Board, the Crowns, and the new councils to achieve an end which will enable the Dreame to live. In Service to the Dreame, ---= Morgan Cely Cain PS: There were many other actions taken, including acceptance of a bid from An Tir for the Thirty Year Celebration, tabling of the question of defining the word "member" due to the pending lawsuit against the Corporation on that issue, and the usual slurry of activities. There is a plan for the Society Seneschal to produce an informal letter about the Board Meetings (send a stamped, self-addressed envelope with at least two ounces' postage, US) until another method occurs. From nordmark-request Mon Apr 18 09:45:13 1994 Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA25347 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 1994 08:40:43 +0200 Received: from macpost.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP (5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA19520; Mon, 18 Apr 94 08:44:10 +0200 Subject: Re: Did they repeal required membership? To: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 08:41:12 +0200 Message-Id: <940418.084112.55816@macpost.lu.se> Status: RO >Date: Sun, 17 Apr 1994 11:47:37 -0400 >To: sca-reform@MIT.EDU >From: ddf2@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (David Friedman) >Subject: Did they repeal required membership? > >Morgan says they did. A more detailed account posted to the Rialto says >they put in a requirement that non-members ("temporary members") pay a $5 >surcharge at any event at which there is a site fee (I think--I do not have >the post in front of me, so it might have been any fee). > >If the latter account is correct, I would say that they have not repealed >required membership, merely modified it a little. This is a slight >improvement in that it makes it clear that non-members can participate in >non-event activities. It also opens a fairly obvious loophole. If the >provision is "site" fee, then groups can hold events where the only >mandatory charge is for the feast and pass the helm, perhaps with a >requested donation. But it is still less than I expected. I await furthe >clarification from those who were there. > >David/Cariadoc > >David Friedman >Cornell Law School >DDF2@Cornell.Edu Janna.Spanne@Kansli.LTH.se From nordmark-request Mon Apr 18 16:21:39 1994 Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA00788 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 1994 16:21:39 +0200 Received: from macpost.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP (5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA05017; Mon, 18 Apr 94 16:25:05 +0200 Subject: Re: Mandatory Membership Repealed-sort of... To: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 16:22:08 +0200 Message-Id: <940418.162208.56222@macpost.lu.se> Status: RO >Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 08:35:29 -0500 (CDT) >From: Grimmund Blackwing <705782DL@GBVAXA.UWGB.EDU> >Subject: Mandatory Membership Repealed-sort of... >To: sca-reform@MIT.EDU > > >Cariadoc/David wrote: > >>Morgan says they did. A more detailed account posted to the Rialto says >>they put in a requirement that non-members ("temporary members") pay a $5 >>surcharge at any event at which there is a site fee (I think--I do not have >>the post in front of me, so it might have been any fee). > > Yes, they did repeal mandatory membership. I was there, I watched >them vote. There was a short period of lively debate, that really wasn't >going anywhere, and then AJ called the question. (FYI: this is a >parlimentary procedure-the BoD votes to continue debate or vote the motion; >if they do not vote for continued debate, they then vote the question itself. >Two votes-first on whether or not to vote, second (maybe) on the issue >itself. Got it?) Calling the question ended the debate; I was too far back >to hear the actual vote, but Liz was miked and announced the results. >Mandatory membership has been repealed. > > However, there is a *different version* of mandatory membership which >seems more resonable and *was* enacted. There will be a $3 (three dollar) >event surcharge for nonmbers, with this money being kicked up to the >corporation. There is a provision that $1 (one dollar) per paying nonmember >be kicked back to the originating kingdom by the corporation, at that >kingdom's request. (This kickback is a dodge, as the Bylaws prevent Kingdoms >from forcing local groups to tithe money directly to their kingdoms. >Apparently this rule was written to prevent kingdoms from raiding local group >funds directly or forcing local groups to pay some sort of "taxes".) The >corporation gets it's funding increase, nobody pays a year's dues for a >single event, and individuals are now free to decide whether buying an >associate membership is cost effective or not. Also, there was some sort of >rider to limit the ammount of money required for a family group. I was a >little unclear on that; I think it will be worked out in implentation. > >Grimmund Blackwing, >Windhaven, Norhtshield, Midrealm Janna.Spanne@Kansli.LTH.se From nordmark-request Mon Apr 18 16:27:17 1994 Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA00849 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 1994 16:27:15 +0200 Received: from macpost.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP (5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA05095; Mon, 18 Apr 94 16:30:43 +0200 Subject: Re: Member price-breaks To: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 16:27:46 +0200 Message-Id: <940418.162746.56226@macpost.lu.se> Status: RO >Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 08:50:25 -0500 (CDT) >From: Grimmund Blackwing <705782DL@GBVAXA.UWGB.EDU> >Subject: Member price-breaks >To: sca-reform@MIT.EDU > >Morgan said: >>However, the Crowns and Great Officers offered their own plan: >>To uniformly surcharge nonmembers at Events, and send this to >>the Corporation. This is already in place for many Events which >>offer members a dollar or two off on the price; even Pennsic does >>this. There was discussion that attendance at Events is, for one >>Barony which has been tracking such things, 25%. > >One little point, Morgan. Currently, near as I can tell, nobody who gives >members a price break forwards the difference anywhere but their own >treasury. IT's a little sematic quibble, but this is a surcharge, not a >membership dsiscount, and the surcharge is not being kept by the local group. > > (Hey, I autocrated the last two Windhaven events, and will be running >the troll this year. We cut members about a $2 slack, but we kept the >difference. This was just our subtle way of encouraging people to but a >membership, and line our group's pockets without feeling really guilty about >it. Then again, we priced so we made minimal profit on members.) > > As a flip side to this discussion, I see this as the end of >discretionary pricing at the local level. With the advent of a top-end >mandated $3 surcharge, I now feel a bit excessive in with my own local $2-3 >price differential-so we'll probably have to equalize the basic, non- >surcharged rates, meaning a slightly higher rate for members to ensure that >we break even. > > (What a bugger-our event's June 3-5. Now I'm gonna need to recalc >all the bloody prices. What a pain...) > > Grimmund Blackwing, >Windhaven, Northshield, Midrealm > > > > Janna.Spanne@Kansli.LTH.se From nordmark-request Mon Apr 18 16:52:20 1994 Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA01478 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 1994 16:52:19 +0200 Received: from macpost.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP (5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA06267; Mon, 18 Apr 94 16:55:46 +0200 Subject: Re: Pay to play == pay to play To: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 16:52:48 +0200 Message-Id: <940418.165248.56265@macpost.lu.se> Status: RO >>Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 10:29:33 -0400 >>From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Joshua Mittleman) >>To: sca-reform@MIT.EDU >>Subject: Pay to play == pay to play >>Reply-To: mittle@watson.ibm.com >> >> >>If you have to pay to play, then it's pay to play; nothing has changed. >> >> Arval. >> >>=========================================================================== >>Arval d'Espas Nord mittle@watson.ibm.com Janna.Spanne@Kansli.LTH.se From nordmark-request Mon Apr 18 19:06:33 1994 Received: from sunic.sunet.se (sunic.sunet.se [192.36.125.2]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA03224 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 1994 19:06:32 +0200 Received: from hjds90.hj.se by sunic.sunet.se (8.6.8/2.03) id TAA17902; Mon, 18 Apr 1994 19:06:28 +0200 Received: by hjds90.hj.se (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.18.1 #18.38) id ; Mon, 18 Apr 94 19:06 MET Received: from TRISSE/M_QUEUE by trisse.hj.se (Mercury 1.11); Mon, 18 Apr 94 19:06:30 GMT+100 Received: from M_QUEUE by TRISSE (Mercury 1.11); Mon, 18 Apr 94 19:06:10 GMT+100 From: "Padraig / Anders" Organization: University of Jonkoping, Sweden To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 19:06:05 MET+1 Subject: MAGNA CARTA! Priority: normal X-mailer: PMail v3.0 (R1) Message-ID: <8E7FF0266@trisse.hj.se> Status: RO NˇR SLOGS DU F™R EN ORˇTTVIS SAK SENAST ??? =========================================== Medge, det har sin charm att sticka dolken i en f”ga anande rygg. Visst „r det sk”nt f”rgifta soppan och se alla bekymmer falla d”da till marken en efter en. Nu har „ven du chansen att visa dina f„rdigheter i ondskans tj„nst. V†r h”gst elake m„stare, Harald Folkesson, kallar de sina till sig f”r att med grovt ”verv†ld tv†la till de stackare som f”rs”ker skapa ett konstruktivt samh„lle. Alla som hj„lper till f†r fritt plundra och r”va av det som undkommit krigets h„rjningar. S„lj din sj„l redan idag! "You do not yet realise the power of the dark side of the force" - Darth Vader Haralds propagandaministerium genom Padraig / Anders "It was a night, oh what a night, L.A. burnin' bright, oh what a night" - Shock to the system Billy Idol From nordmark-request Wed Apr 20 13:49:48 1994 Received: from meryl.csd.uu.se (meryl.csd.uu.se [130.238.11.31]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA02972 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 1994 13:49:45 +0200 Received: by meryl.csd.uu.se id AA08156 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Wed, 20 Apr 1994 13:49:41 +0200 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 13:49:41 +0200 Message-Id: <199404201149.AA08156@meryl.csd.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: Lagtext From: Sender: vader@csd.uu.se X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: RO William de Corbie h{lsar alla. H{r f|ljer texten till Nordmarks lag, efter de r{ttelser och {ndringar som skedde vid Tinget. Jag hoppas att jag f}tt med allting -- {r tacksam f|r p}pekanden om n}gon hittar fel. Det {r bara en detalj som fortfarande inte {r fixad: den exakta formuleringen f|r Dr|mmens Orden. Jag och Baron Erik har r{tt olika s{tt att uttrycka oss och jag ger tv} alternativa formu- leringar till dess att jag hunnit diskutera saken med honom. --- text f|ljer --- Furstend|met Nordmarks Lag Lagabalken Cu1. Om Nordmarks plats i v{rlden Furstend|met Nordmark {r del utav the Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc., som i denna lag varder n{mnt SCA. SCA s|ker utforska, }terskapa och levandeg|ra v{sterlandets kultur och historia under huvudsakligen medeltiden och ren{ssansen. SCA verkar ej f|r sina medlemmars vinning eller penning. Inom SCA anv{ndas adliga och kungliga titlar. Vi anv{nda ej och g|ra ej anspr}k p} dessa utanf|r v}rt s{llskap. Vi g|ra ej anspr}k p} makt |ver n}got land. Vi |va ej n}gon viss religion eller politik. Cu2. Om landam{ren Furstend|met Nordmark omfattar samma landam{ren som det moderna kungariket Sverige. Nu vill h{rad eller annat l{n utanf|r Sverige ansluta sig till Nordmark. D} kan tinget besluta att de skola upptagas, om det kan ske utan att Nordmarks spr}k {ndras. Cu3. Om Nordmarks spr}k Officiella dokument i Nordmark skrivas p} svenska. Nu g{ller dokument s}dant som {ven ber|r utl{ndska SCA-grupper. D} skall det ock |vers{ttas till engelska. Nu finnes dokument p} b{gge spr}ken, {ge d} det svenska f|retr{de om tvivel uppst}r. SCAs regler utanf|r Sverige {ro p} engelska. Nordmark g|r ej officiell eller lagligen bindande |vers{ttning av dessa }t sitt folk. Vid Nordmarks sammankomster och hov m} valfritt spr}k talas, allt eftersom man vill behaga de n{rvarande. Talar man utl{ndska, skola dock kung{relser om Nordmarks lagar och utn{mningar g|ras p} svenska, annars vare s}dan kung|relse ogill. Cu4. Om lagar I Nordmark g{lla dessa lagar i nedstigande ordning: Svea Rikes lag, SKA- Nordmarks stadgar, Corpora and By-laws of the SCA, Governing and Policy Decisions of the Board of Directors of the SCA, kungariket Drachenwalds lag, samt furstend|met Nordmarks lag. Alla {ldre lagar f|r Nordmark som ej st} med i denna lagbok {ro upph{vda. Lag stiftas i Nordmark av Tinget. Endast fursteparet {ga r{tt att till Tinget f|resl} {ndring av Nordmarks lag. Lag b|rjar g{lla n{r den varit skriven och uts{nd i bladen "The Dragon's Tale" och "Silversparren" samt utropats vid ett furstligt hov. Furstend|mets drots skall tillse att lagen }rligen bliver m}ngfaldigad och tillg{nglig f|r de unders}tar som |nska ink|pa egen lagbok. Hava f{rre {n tre stycken blivit {ndrade, r{cker att ett blad med r{ttelser l{gges i den gamla lagboken. Har inget {ndrats, och finnes gamla lagb|cker kvar, {r ny lagbok ej av n|den. Cu5. Om Nordmarks vapen Nordmarks vapen skall vara: P} sk|ld kluven i svart och bl}tt, en silverne sparre, och |verallt en gyllene lagerkrans. I engelsk blasonering {r det: Per pale sable and azure, a chevron argent and overall a laurel wreath or. Cu6. Om furstend|mets evenemang Furstend|mets evenemang {ro: tinget, krontornering och investitur. Furstliga evenemang kunna h}llas vid andra evenemang som av sed h}llas i Nordmark H{rskarebalken Cu1. Om regenterna Nordmark styres av en furste och en furstinna. Dessa tv} samr}da i allt och {ga lika r{tt och makt. Ingen av dem m} handla utan den andre, utom n{r lagen s} s{rskilt f|reskriver. I lagen n{mnas de gemensamt "fursteparet" eller "regenterna". I Nordmark regera furstepar uti tolv m}nader. Cu2. Om hur regenter utses Vid pass tre m}nader innan skifte sker p} tronerna skola fursteparet buda krontornering. Torneringen skall utlysas med tid och plats i "Silversparren" och "The Dragon's Tale" som utkomma till folket senast en m}nad f|re sammankomsten. F|re krontorneringen skola alla deltagare s{nda brev till fursteparet och kung|ra f|r vem de vilja k{mpa. K{mpe {ger att s|ka vinna kronan f|r sig och sin medkandidat av motsatt k|n, eller att g|ra det som f|rk{mpe f|r ett annat par av kandidater. De som deltaga i torneringen genom f|rk{mpe skola s{nda brev till kronan och godk{nna f|rk{mpen. Till krontornering komme alla som vilja vinna kronan. Den ej kommer, d|mes lating och vinne ej kronan. G{lle s} denna lag om k{mpe s}v{l som den eller dem f|r vilka k{mpe strider. I krontornering m} endast den deltaga som g{ldat }rslega till SCA i minst ett }r och haft hus och h{rd inom Nordmarks landam{ren i minst ett }r. Ej m} n}gon ha fler {n en f|rk{mpe i torneringen. Den som deltager i torneringen genom f|rk{mpe m} ej sj{lv k{mpa i torneringen. Ej heller vare regerande furste eller furstinna f|rk{mpe i torneringen. N{r f|rk{mpe segrat, m} han ej deltaga i n}gon kron- eller furstetornering s} l{nge det furstepar han k{mpat f|r sitter p} tronerna. Segrande f|rk{mpe beh}lle rang och titel av fursteparets f|rk{mpe med d{rtill h|rande plikter, privilegier, {ra och insignier, under hela regeringstiden, s}framt han ej sj{lv avs{ger sig sitt uppdrag. F|rk{mpe skall ej k|pas mot l|fte om rang och v{rdighet. Ett furstepar m} ej l|na sin f|rk{mpe med furstliga utm{rkelser. Cu3. Fursteparets skyldigheter och r{ttigheter 1. Fursteparet hava f|ljande skyldigheter: De skola n{rvara vid sin investitur, vid f|ljande krontornering, samt vid eftertr{darnas investitur. Minst en av dem skall ock n{rvara vid alla Ting som h}llas under deras regeringstid. De skola vara f|red|men f|r alla i ridderlighet, h|viskhet och andra dygder som f|rv{ntas av {dlingar, och att befr{mja och uppmuntra dessa dygder hos alla sina unders}tar och vasaller. De skola k{nna, lyda och uppeh}lla Nordmarks lagar, Drachenwalds lagar, Corpora och By-Laws. Med {ra skola de bel|na dem som skickligt och idogt befr{mjar S{llskapets och Furstend|mets m}l. ] papper eller pergament skola de bokf|ra all officiell korrespondens, alla utn{mningar och andra officiella handlingar, och till sina eftertr{dare |verl{mna denna bokf|ring. Under sin regeringstid m} de ej samtidigt innehava andra furstliga eller kungliga {mbeten. De skola avst} allt s}dant till andra. De skola under sin regeringstid f|rvalta de furstliga regalierna och vid sitt fr}ntr{de |verl{mna dessa till sina eftertr{dare. Genom dokument och kung|relse vid hov skola de erk{nna sina f|retr{dare som vicomte och vicomtessa, n{r dessa hava uppfyllt kraven f|r s}dan rang och titel. Under hela sin tid som regenter skola de hava Silversparren i sitt hus (bo fursteparet under samma tak {ro icke tvenne Silversparrar n|diga). 2. Fursteparet hava f|ljande s{rskilda r{ttigheter och privilegier: R{tten att utdela s}dana kungliga bel|ningar vartill r{tt antvardats dem av konungen. R{tten att utdela Nordmarks furstliga bel|ningar. R{tten att ensamma till Tinget l{mna f|rslag om {ndring av Nordmarks lag. R{tten att neka vem som helst att deltaga i Nordmarks furstetornering. D} skola fursteparet till den nekade l{mna skriftligt nejord, vari sk{l f|r nekan skola givas. R{tten till furstefrid, det {r fredat omr}de tio fot runt dem, var de {n befinna sig. R{tten att utse ett hov best}ende av de hirdm{n, r}dgivare och hj{lpare de anse sig beh|va. R{tten att ta emot eller avvisa g}vor till sig sj{lva eller till Nordmarks furstepar. G}vor till Nordmarks furstepar n{mnas regalier och {ro furstend|mets egendom. Cu4. N{r regenter saknas Bortfaller antingen furste eller furstinna, skall den andre ensam regera Nordmark till slutet av regeringstiden. Bortfalla b}de furste och furstinna, bliver drotsen riksf|rest}ndare. Som s}dan haver denne alla fursteparets plikter och r{ttigheter, utom r{tten att dela ut bel|ningar och r{tten att f|resl} {ndring av lagen. Nu har drotsen blivit riksf|rest}ndare. H}lle han d} genast investitur och krontornering, vilket som {r till{mpligt, och skaffe han s} furstend|met snarast ett nytt furstepar. Bortfall {r det n{r n}gon abdikerar eller d|r, eller han av kronan d|mes ej kunna uppfylla sina plikter enligt Corpora eller denna lag. N{r n}gon bortfaller, blive han ej vicomte. Tingsbalken Ting h}lles var sj{tte m}nad. Efter att ha r}dfr}gat fursteparet om l{mplig dag och plats, budar drotsen ting. Tingsbud skall vara Nordmarks folk tillhanda senast en m}nad f|re sammankomsten. I tingsbud skall utskrivas var sak som vid tinget s{rskilt skall beslutas. Vid ting {ga alla Nordmarks inv}nare s{te och st{mma. R|str{tt {ge dock endast den som g{ldat medlemsavgift till SCA. Nu vill n}gon r|sta i utlyst sak, men kan ej komma till tinget. D} skall han skriva ett r|stebrev och skicka det till drotsen eller annan som kommer till tinget. Till r|stebrev skall fogas urkund om betald }rslega till SCA. F{rre {n tjugofem, det {r ej ting. Nytt ting skall man d} buda. Nu {r ting f|rsamlat och fursteparet hava lyst tingsfrid. D} skall drotsen eller den han utser leda f|rhandlingarna, och man skall fritt dryfta alla furstend|mets angel{genheter. Nu f|resl} fursteparet att lagen skall {ndras. [ge tinget att s}dant f|rslag taga eller vr{ka. Gilla f{rre {n tv} tredjedelar {ndringen, vare f|rslaget vr{kt. Nu f|resl} fursteparet att regalier skola f|rd{rvas, s{ljas eller sk{nkas. [ge d} tinget att best{mma vad som ska g|ras med regalierna. [r man oense, r}de de som {ro flera. Nu finnes ambassad fr}n omr}de utanf|r Nordmark, som |nska bliva del av furstend|met. M} tinget dem taga eller vr{ka. Annat {n vad som ovan sagts {ger tinget ej besluta, men v{l giva r}d till regenter och {mbetsm{n. Vid ting skall tid och plats beredas s} att furstend|mets {mbetsm{n kunna m|tas s{rskilt, att dryfta sina saker. Vid s}dant m|te {ga ock drotsar fr}n alla Nordmarks l{n och omr}den s{te och st{mma. Nu st}r n|den f|r d|rren. D} {ger drotsen att kalla till urtima ting. Bud om urtima ting vare i folkets h{nder minst tv} veckor f|re m|tet. Vid urtima ting g{lle samma lag som vid lagtima ting, men s{rskilt m|te f|r {mbetsm{n beh|ver ej ordnas. [mbetsbalken Cu1. Om furstend|mets {mbeten Furstend|met skall alltid hava f|ljande {mbetsm{n: Drots, h{rold, marsk, skattm{stare, konst- och hantverksmagister, vetenskapsmagister, kr|nik|r, f{ltsk{r. Dessutom kan furstend|met hava andra {mbetsm{n, vilka tills{ttas n{r s} beh|ves. Dessa kunna vara: Historiker, kastellan, tornejklerk, fogde, b}gskyttekapten, pr{ntare, f{ktm{stare, universitetskansler, eller annat {mbete som furstend|met beh|ver. Cu2. Om hur {mbetsm{n utses Nu skall ny {mbetsman tills{ttas. D} skall f|retr{daren eller drotsen utlysa {mbetet i "Silversparren", och giva en m}nads varsel. Alla som vilja bekl{da {mbetets plikter skola skriva till utlysaren. Sedan skola denne med drots och furstepar f|resl} den dugligaste. Furstliga {mbetsm{n utn{mnas av kronan, eller av fursteparet d} s}dan makt givits dem av kronan, i samr}d med kungad|mets motsvarande {mbetsman. Ej have n}gon mer {n ett furstligt {mbete vid samma tid. [mbetsman sk|te {mbetet i tv} }r, sedan m} han avg} eller }terintr{da. Ej m} n}gon kvarst} i samma {mbete mer {n fyra }r. Nu vill {mbetsman avg}. M} han s} g|ra n{r det honom passar, och sk|te hans vice {mbetet till dess en eftertr{dare utsetts. Om avs{ttning stadgas uti Corpora och Kungariket Drachenwalds lag. Cu3. Om {mbetsm{nnens skyldigheter [mbetsman haver f|ljande skyldigheter: Vare han minst 18 }r gammal. Have han tillg}ng till Silversparren och The Dragon's Tale. Komme han till Tinget. Kan han ej komma, s{nde han en ers{ttare med skriftlig fullmakt att f|retr{da {mbetet. S{nde han ock rapport till sin |verordnade s} som Drachenwalds lag f|reskriver, och kopia av rapporten till fursteparet. Han skall tillse och ansvara f|r utvecklingen och kunskapen inom sitt omr}de. H}lle han ett arkiv och give han det vid sin avg}ng till eftertr{daren. H}lle han flitigt kontakt med sina underlydande {mbetsm{n i Nordmarks l{n och omr}den, give han dem nyheter och v{gledning, samt vake han |ver deras medlemskaps giltighet. \ve han en eftertr{dare. Vare och f|rblive han bosatt inom furstend|mets gr{nser. [mbetsman haver r{tt att taga sig s} m}nga bitr{den han beh|ver. [mbetsman skall nedskriva sina tankar om hur {mbetet ska fungera i alla delar av Nordmark, och tillse att underordnade i Nordmarks l{n och omr}den f}r del av dessa. Har {mbetsman inga tankar, g}nge han genast av. Cu4. [mbetsbeskrivningar 1. [mbeten, vilka alltid skola vara tillsatta: Drots Drotsen {r furstend|mets h|gste befallningsman. Drotsen talar f|r SCA inf|r mundana media och myndigheter, och f|r ordet vid ting. H{rold H{rolden hj{lper Nordmarks inv}nare med vapenbilds- och namnans|kningar, h}ller en rangrulla, g|r den tillg{nglig f|r folket och h}ller den aktuell. H{rolden svarar f|r utrop vid hov och k{mpalekar. Marsk Marsken |vervakar s{kerheten vid torneringar och tr{ning f|r k{mpalekar. Svarar f|r att Skrankornas Lag (Rules of the Lists) f|ljes och att s{kerheten p} stridsf{ltet {r god. Har r{tt att utf{rda kompletterande best{mmelser om vapen, rustningar och s{kerhet i strid. Konst- och hantverksmagister, Vetenskapsmagister, Konst- och vetenskapsmagister Konst- och hantverksmagistern |vervakar och uppmuntrar konstn{rliga aktiviteter s}som gillen, utst{llningar, konst- och hantverkst{vlingar. Vetenskapsmagistern |vervakar och uppmuntrar studiet av medeltidens teknologi, filosofi och levnadss{tt. Har universitetskanslern till sin s{rskilda hj{lp. Dessa tvenne {mbeten kunna sk|tas av samma person. Denne n{mnes d} konst- och vetenskapsmagister. Skattm{stare Skattm{staren sk|ter furstend|mets kassakista. Kr|nik|r Kr|nik|ren tillser att nyhetsbladet Silversparren skrives, m}ngfaldigas och uts{ndes. \vervakar de blad som finnas i Nordmarks l{n och omr}den. Ser till att kr{vda gratiskopior skickas till kungad|met. F{ltsk{r F{ltsk{r skall ha kunskaper och f{rdigheter som svarar mot R|da Korsets f|rsta hj{lpen-utbildning. \vervakar och samordnar f|rsta hj{lpen vid evenemang och sk|ter eventuella kurser i f|rsta hj{lpen. 2. Exempel p} {mbeten, vilka kunna tills{ttas eller l{mnas vakanta allt efter furstend|mets behov: Historiker Historikern samlar material om Nordmarks historia och h}ller en lista |ver de regalier som finnas. Tornejklerk Tornejklerken svarar f|r skrivandet vid torneringar. Tornejklerken har r{tt till obehindrad utsikt |ver stridsplatsen och samarbetar s{rskilt med marsken. Kastellan Kastellanen giver information till intresserade och nyb|rjare. Fogde Fogden vakar |ver ordning och s{kerhet vid evenemang. Vid torneringar och krig samarbetar fogden s{rskilt med marsken. B}gskyttekapten B}gskyttekaptenen |vervakar och fr{mjar studiet av historiskt b}gskytte inom SCAs tidsramar. Tillser att kungarikets s{kerhetsregler f|ljas, samt har r{tt att utf{rda egna till{gg till dessa. Utser och bemyndigar b}gskyttekaptener och -marskar i Nordmarks l{n och omr}den, enligt de instruktioner som kungarikets b}gskyttekapten utf{rdar. Pr{ntare Pr{ntaren |vervakar skrivandet av s}dana dokument som fursteparet beg{ra. Fr{mjar kalligrafi, illumination och d{rtill h|rande konster i furstend|met. F{ktmarsk F{ktmarsken svarar f|r ren{ssansf{ktning inom furstend|met. Vakar |ver torneringar och tr{ning f|r ren{ssansf{ktning. Ser till att kungad|mets s{kerhetsregler f|ljs och har r{tt att utf{rda till{gg till dessa. F{ktmarsken samarbetar med marsken. Universitetskansler Universitetskanslern samordnar och |vervakar Nordmarks universitet. F|ljer vetenskapsmagisterns anvisningar. Ordensbalken I furstend|met Nordmark finnas dessa bel|ningar: Det Gyllene Bandets orden. Gives f|r g{rningar inom {mbetsverk eller annat h}rt och uth}lligt arbete f|r furstend|met. Vita Portens v{ktare. Gives den som visat h|viskhet, skicklighet i stridskonst och villighet att l{ra andra vapnens bruk. Ljusorden. Gives den som visat skicklighet inom konst, hantverk och vetenskap, och villighet att dela med sig av sin kunskap och f{rdighet }t andra. (ERIKs formulering:) Dr|mmens orden. Gives den som medvetet planerat och genomf|rt s{rskilt ber|mlig g{rning i akt och avsikt att ingjuta i andra den tidl|sa och sv}rf}ngade st{mning vilken vi ben{mna Dr|mmen. (WILLIAMs formulering:) Dr|mmens orden. Gives den som med vilja och upps}t planerat och utf|rt ber|mlig g{rning i avsikt att ingjuta i andra den tidl|sa och sv}rf}ngade st{mning som brukar n{mnas Dr|mmen. Dessa fyra {ro lika i rang och v{rdighet. Ordensmedlem st|dje fursteparet med r}d och d}d, fr{mje arbete inom ordens omr}de och vare redo att f|resl} v{rdige m{n och kvinnor till upph|jelse och bel|ning. From nordmark-request Wed Apr 20 13:59:36 1994 Received: from hplb.hpl.hp.com (hplb.hpl.hp.com [15.255.59.2]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA03151 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 1994 13:59:32 +0200 Received: from hpustoix.sweden.hp.com by hplb.hpl.hp.com; Wed, 20 Apr 1994 12:56:04 +0100 Received: by hpustoix.sweden.hp.com (1.36.108.7/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA02599; Wed, 20 Apr 1994 13:59:04 +0200 From: Morgan Broman Message-Id: <9404201159.AA02599@hpustoix.sweden.hp.com> Subject: Regler Magna Carta II ! To: nordmark@mother.ludd.luth.se (Nordmark mailing list (SCA)) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 94 13:59:03 METDST Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25] Status: RO [This message is converted from WPS-PLUS to ASCII] Magna Carta 940314 Kapitel Sid Kriget..................................1 Delmoment AoS F{kting B}gskytte Heraldik Slaget................................2 Flaggor Tid Geografiska namn Geografi............................3 Resurrection points Regler Baner-regel Features............................4 Broar Flod, b}tar Halmbalar Kapell............................5 Murar Mur-strid.........................6 Mur-port Staden............................7 F}ngar F{ngelse Personalbehov Sjukv}rd \vrigt..................................8 - ALLM[N INFO 1 Kriget R|r skatter{tten till Viborg. Delmoment F|ljande delmoment ing}r i kriget: - Art & Science - F{ktning - B}gskytte - Heraldik - Slaget Alla moment utom kriget ger segraren en WAR POINT. Kriget kan ge upp till fyra WAR POINTS. Art & Science ans Gabriel Eriksson Samtliga deltagande objekt fr}n vardera sidan st{lls ut p} l}ngbord eller motsvarande f|r allm{n besk}dning. Alla n{rvarande p} eventet r|star p} sina favorit objekt. 5 objekt fr}n vardera sidan g}r till final. Personer som |nskar upptr{da best{mmer sj{lva n{r de vill upptr{da p} en speciell "bokningslista". Detta g|rs vid anm{lan. F{ktning ans Johann Berndt De tv} sidorna placerar sig i en bar enligt deltagarnas |nskem}l. Deltagarna {r sedan tidigare informerade om att de inte f}r dra sv{rd f|rr{n n}gon annan gjort det. Tv} f|rberedda personer startar ett gr{l som sedan sprider sig. Resurrection point finns vid ena porten. "D|dade" personer g}r ut genom ena porten, g}r runt huset och kommer in genom den andra porten. Varje deltagare har tre liv (= tv} resurrections), markeras med tv} armbindlar som dras vid varje }terupplivning. Barmilj|n skapar vi p} plats. B}gskytte ans William de Corbie Heraldik ans Peder Klingrode De tv} armeerna st{ller upp p} slagf{ltet utanf|r staden p} varsin sida om floden innan kriget b|rjar f|r heraldisk inspektion. SLAGET 2 Det finns en stad och tre byar. Ena styrkan startar vid sin resurrection point, och den andra inne i staden samt byarna (Svens sida). I staden finns 2 flaggor placerade (p} varsin sida av floden), tv} av byarna har dessutom varsin flagga. B}da styrkorna ska sedan er|vra s} m}nga flaggor som m|jligt genom att inta byarna och staden. Varje flagga {r v{rd en War Point. Flaggor Flaggorna {r fast monterade och kan aldrig flyttas. En flagga anses vara h}llen om en person (lag) ensamt kan st} p} kn{ vid slutsignalen och n} flaggan med handen. Om ingen eller b}da sidor kan n} en flagga s} blir det inga po{ng f|r den. Tid Slaget k|rs p} en i f|rv{g best{md tid utan matpauser osv. Tiden best{ms genom lottdragning innan kriget, d} en person "timer" tittar p} lotten, stoppar ner den i ett kuvert, samt f|rseglar kuvertet mha sigill, de resterande 6 lotterna eldas upp. Ingen annan k{nner till krigets l{ngd. Tiden {r 3 timmar +/- 30 minuter, varje lott motsvarar +/- 0/10/20/30 minuter, totalt sju lotter. N{r tiden {r slut bl}ser han i sitt medhavda horn. Geografiska Namn Staden heter Viborg, handelstad grundad 1052 Flodby Ribe Flod Ribe {lv By i Svartm}rden R|nne By i H}laveden Ringsted Gruva V{ Bokskog H}laveden Skog Svartm}rden Geografi 3 Omr}det delas i tv} delar av Ribe {lv. Viborg ligger vid {lven s} att det finns en stadsdel p} vardera sidan av {lven. L{ngre bort ligger en gruva, V{, i omedelbar anslutning till Ribe. Mellan Viborg och V{ ligger byn Ribe tv{rs |ver floden. Dessutom finns en by i en skog, samt en by i ett mer avl{gset h|rn av slagf{ltet. Floden rinner fr}n gruvan mot staden. Det finns ett vadst{lle i Ribe, samt ett p} andra sidan av staden. I Viborg finns tv} stycken broar. Resurrection points Vardera sidan har en resurrection point utanf|r stridsomr}det. F|r f|rsvararna ligger den vid sidan av floden, f|r den andra sidan ligger den p} stranden vid strandhugget. Omr}det markeras med band/sn|re s} att det finns en v{l definerad in/utg}ng. Det ska finnas personal som tar band fr}n "d|dade" k{mpar vid inpassering till resurrection point. Varje k{mpe har 5 liv. Det ska g} att k|ra bil till dessa tv} punkter (ambulans). Vatten ska finnas. Ordna stora dunkar/flaskor. Ber{kna 5 liter per man. Regler - Regler som kommer att anv{ndas inkluderar combat archery (se Drachenwalds b}gskytteregler), kill on the ground & kill from behind, dock inte face thrust. - Rustning s{mre {n dem som combat archers har kommer inte att anv{ndas (tex inga l{ttkl{dda spejare) - Syr Morgan med v{pnare ansvarar f|r armour inspection under veckan. - Vi kommer inte bidra med n}got material som som anses som "optional", typ bel{gringsmaskiner. - All utrustning ska godk{nnas av Syr Morgan eller av honom utsedd representant f|re slaget. - Regler ska delas ut till alla deltagare. - START/STOP markeras medelst bl}sning i mistlur. Vid slutsignal g}r alla omedelbart ner p} kn{. Flagg-regel Varje enhet som best}r av minst 5 k{mpar m}ste ha en flagga. Flaggan, truppens namn och dess ledare skall registrera sig hos h{rolds{mbetet innan kriget. Features 4 Broar Ska ha slanor (f{sts med tr{plugg) s} att man k{nner n{r man kliver av bron. Vid strid p} bron kan inga b}tar passera, d{remot kan en b}t l{gga sig bredvid ena brokanten och deltaga i strid. Vid passage {r strid m|jlig som vanligt mellan b}t och bro/land personal. B}tar springer |ver bron vid passering. Om bes{ttningen snubblar vid passage k|r b}ten in i bron och sjunker (bes{ttningen drunknar). Flod (sj|regler), B}tar En b}t best}r av minst tre slanor (sidor) med en markerad f|r. Floden ska m{rkas ut tydligt mha snitselband (dra ut floden p} l{ngden). SJUNKNA B]TAR - Sjunkna b}tar markeras genom kn{ckta pinnar. - Tre sjunkna b}tar ovanp} varandra sp{rrar floden f|r passage. - Vid vadst{lle blockeras ALL B]TTRAFIK av EN b}t inom det omr}de som vraket markerar. F\RFLYTTNING - Minst tv} personer m}ste finnas p} en b}t samtidigt f|r att kunna flytta b}ten. - Det {r till}tet att sl{ppa en b}t, d} ligger den stilla. - B}tar kan dras upp p} land, men en del av b}ten m}ste nudda vatten. - Uppdragen b}t kan ej flyttas |ver land. - B{res medelst h{nderna, (f}r ej h{ngas). - B}ten f}r ej b{ras |ver midjeh|jd. DRUNKNING - Fotfolk utan b}t i floden drunknar omedelbart (vadst{llen {r undantagna). - Om en b}t g}r s|nder s} sjunker den och alla d|r (utom vid vast{llen, d} man kan kn{a d{rifr}n). STRID - Strid mellan b}t och landpersonal {r m|jlig med alla typer av vapen. - Det {r till}tet att sl} p} b}tar f|r att ha s|nder dem. - Det {r inte till}tet att sl} eller st|ta under relingen. DIVERSE - Vid vadst{lle kn{ar k{mparna och sl}ss kn{st}ende. - 3 eldpilar/facklor eller ett varv med kr{pppapper g|r att b}ten brinner upp. Marsk r{knar till 10. Uppbrunnen b}t sjunker. Kapell St G|rans hospital 5 Kapellet ligger utanf|r staden, dock inom synh}ll d{rifr}n. H{r finns sjukv}rdare i m}n av tillg}ng, samt pilinspekt|r. I hospitalet r}der sanctum. Byggnaden markeras med speciell tejp. Det ska finnas vatten tillg{ngligt i hospitalet. Det {r roligt om personal i kyrkan {r ikl{dd munkk}por. Om n}gon sida s{tter eld p} st{llet f|rlorar den sidan TV] War Points. Murar Husv{ggar anses vara kraftigare {n murar, dessa regler g{ller endast f|r murar. Liten mur finns redan fr}n start i staden, d} ett f}tal gator {r helt eller delvis igenmurade. Halmbalar anv{nds som byggmaterial f|r murar. Materialet finns att h{mta i gruvan f|r att sedan transporteras med b}t till staden eller flod-byn. Det finns dock bara ett begr{nsat antal murbitar. Fr}n krigets b|rjan ska det finnas minst 50 st halmbalar att tillg}. Det g}r inte att innesluta ett omr}de. En mur m}ste ha minst en port eller |ppning. En |ppning {r minst en halmbal bred. Murh|jd {r minst tv} halmbalar. Endast en halmbal r{knas inte alls. Transport av murmaterial Det g}r att transportera murbitar hur som helst, varje k{mpe f}r b{ra hur m}nga balar som helst. Vid dagbrottet (gruvan) kan man fritt h{mta murbitar f|r transport till annan ort. Den som {r i besittning av konstruktionen f}r bygga om den och riva den fr}n insidan. Mur strid 6 Strid |ver mur kan endast ske mha pilar och kastspjut eller via {ntringstege. P} insidan av muren kan man st} utan stege. Man kan bara sl} p} folk som st}r p} stege eller {r innanf|r muren. Mur kan rivas. Raserad mur kan flyttas (om man vill) och byggas upp igen. Om en mur tr{ffas en g}ng av en kastmaskins projektil raseras den murbiten. Murbr{cka hanteras av 6 personer (med rep) och {r tre meter (120 tum) l}ng och med en diameter p} minst 15 cm (6 tum). Murbr{ckor ska ha en markerad (och "paddad") "st|t" {nda. En mur raseras om man lyckas trycka en murbr{cka genom den. Murbr{ckor f}r inte anv{ndas mot k{mpar. Det {r inte till}tet att springa/storma med murbr{cka. [ntringstegar best}r av tre standard |l/l{sk backar. Man bygger en stege genom att s{tta ihop backarnas kortsidor. Man kan endast kliva upp p} stegen p} backen l{ngst bort fr}n muren. Stegens ena kortsida m}ste ha kontakt med muren. Om man puttar bort stegen fr}n muren s} d|r alla k{mpar p} stegen. Stegen m}ste st} vinkelr{tt mot muren. Det m}ste vara minst en meter mellan stegarna. G}r backarna is{r g}r stegen s|nder och allt folk p} stegen trillar ner och d|r. Stegar kan inte st|ttas. Mur-port En port g}r att |ppna och st{nga av den som besitter den. De {r gjorda av halmbalar med snitselm{rkning p} 3 sidor av halmbalen (omarkerad sida {r utsida), som markerats av ansvariga innan kriget. En portbit kan inte anv{ndas som murbit. Port kan bara |ppnas fr}n insidan, i |vrigt se nedan. En port best}r av tv} halmbalar, d{r den undre kan vara en vanlig murbit. En port g}r s|nder av en tr{ff av kastmaskins projektil eller en st|t med murbr{cka. Den g}r ocks} s|nder av att man "hakar" den eller st|ter ner den med spjut eller polearm. Flera portar kan finnas bredvid varandra. Staden 7 Normala husv{ggar anses vara tillverkade av tr{. Om man springer tre varv kring ett hus och virar kreppapper runt det s} b|rjar det brinna. Kreppappret kan inte }teranv{ndas. Hus markeras med band. Hus kan {ven f|rst|ras genom att eldas ner mha eldpilar eller facklor. Nerbrunnet hus markeras genom att banden dras ner till marken. Eldpilar markeras med kreppapper eller motsvarande, minst fyra st av pilens halva l{ngd. Alla pilar m}ste markeras personligt. Facklor {r 30 cm l}nga, v{ger 0.5 kg, paddad i b}da {ndar minst samma diameter som sv{rd. De {r markerade med 10 cm l}nga r|da band. Facklor kan }teranv{ndas direkt. Marsk som ser fem st eldpilar/facklor regna in i ett hus r{knar sakta till 10. De som {r kvar d{rinne d} {r innebr{nda och d|r. F}ngar I st{llet f|r att bli d|dad kan man ge sig oberoende av hur m}nga liv som man har kvar. D} g}r man till f{ngelset, utan vakt, som {r markerat med vimpel. En f}nge f}r inte sl}ss varken i f{ngelset eller p} v{g dit. En f}nge f}r inte heller d|das i f{ngelse eller p} v{g dit. En f}nge kan beg} sj{lvmord. F}ngar markerar sig sj{lva genom att h}lla vapnen upp-och-ner eller motsvarande. Om alla f}ngvaktare d|das {r det till}tet f|r alla f}ngar att l{mna det, de blir d} fria. F{ngelse En speciell vimpel (olika f{rg f|r olika sidor) markerar f{ngelse. Det hus d{r vimpeln finns uppsatt markerar f{ngelse (dvs den {r nedstucken i marken). F{ngelset vaktas av k{mpar som {r inom 3 meter fr}n porten. Finns ingen vakt s} {r f}ngarna fria att g} till sin egen resurrection point (utan att f|rlora liv). Vimpeln kan flyttas, och d} m}ste f}ngarna f|lja med. Kommer det nya f}ngar samtidigt som vimpeln flyttas f}r de ist{llet g} in till sin egen resurrectionpoint (utan att f|rlora liv). En vakt h}ller vimpeln. Skulle vimpeln vid transport av f}ngar nudda marken {r f}ngarna fria. F}ngarna ansvarar f|r att de alltid {r n{ra flaggan. Ledare f|r de tv} sidorna Riddar Sven (liljorna) Herr Harald (falkarna) VŲLKOMNA ! Morgan// War-o-Crat...;) -- HP : Morgan Broman mabr@sweden.hp.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- What is life, but a sequence of fragments of time put together in a random fashion, to create eternity... [R] Shade ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nothing stated here is an official statement by the Hewlett-Packard Corp. From nordmark-request Wed Apr 20 14:46:59 1994 Received: from madonna.Kemi.UU.SE (madonna.kemi.uu.se [130.238.66.25]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA03767 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 1994 14:46:57 +0200 From: frithiof@oorgan.dnet Received: from OORGAN.DECnet MAIL11D_V3 by madonna.Kemi.UU.SE with SMTP id AA29322 (5.65c+/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Wed, 20 Apr 1994 14:56:09 +0200 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 14:56:08 +0200 Message-Id: <199404201256.AA29322@madonna.Kemi.UU.SE> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: King's Prize Tourney Status: RO Kungliga Pristorneringen/the Royal Prize Tourney! Hans majest{t Morgan har givit mig {ran att arrangera en pristornering under Dubbelkriget. Prelimikn{rt kommer den att {ga rum p} Tisdagen. Jag {mnar d{rf|r ta tillf{llet i akt att prova ut en del nya ideer p} gr{ddan av Nordmarks k{mpar, s}v{l som p} tillresta fr}n andra delar av den K{nda V{rlden. Dessutom, p} grund av yrkesskada, kommer jag att f|rs|ka g|ra detta till en heraldisk h{ndelse av maximala m}tt. S}lunda torde de som {mnar deltaga i torneringen f|rse sig icke blott med en sk|ld bem}lad med sitt vapen, utan {ven en heraldisk vapenrock/tabard. Hj{lmprydnad ger ett extra plus! [r {ven de deltagandes damer/herrar kl{dda i heraldisk surcote eller motsvarande blir glansen och st}ten i det n{rmaste total! Regler f|r torneringen: Formen kommer att bli det som p} engelska kallas f|r "at the Barriers", det vill s{ga k{mparna st}r p} varsin sida av ett l}gt skrank. Ett enkelt s{tt att begr{nsa stridsplatsen utan att riskera att k{mparna springer ner listrepet. tornewringen kommer att g} i tre omg}ngar med olika vapenstilar: Vapen och sk|ld, tv}handsvapen/st}ngvapen, och SPJUT! Just det, f{ktning med spjut! S{tt i g}ng och tr{na! Motst}ndarna kommer att lottas varje omg}ng, men inget par k{mpar kommer att m|tas mer {n en g}ng. Varje tr{ff ger en po{ng. Varje match ger maximalt tre po{ng. Tr{ffar rapporteras bara, man f|rlorar allts} inga kroppsdelar. Den som har flest po{ng efter tre omg}ngar har vunnit. Vid lika po{ng kommer damernas r|st att f{lla utslaget, baserat p} ridderlighet, elegans, och heraldisk uppvisning. Observera att detta {r prelimin{ra regler; de kan komma att {ndras om tillr{ckliga sk{l finnes! Frithiof Sigvardsson Sk{gge From nordmark-request Wed Apr 20 16:36:21 1994 Received: from madonna.Kemi.UU.SE (madonna.kemi.uu.se [130.238.66.25]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA05665 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 1994 16:36:18 +0200 From: frithiof@oorgan.dnet Received: from OORGAN.DECnet MAIL11D_V3 by madonna.Kemi.UU.SE with SMTP id AA29386 (5.65c+/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Wed, 20 Apr 1994 16:37:28 +0200 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 16:37:28 +0200 Message-Id: <199404201437.AA29386@madonna.Kemi.UU.SE> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: King's Prize Tourney,-oops! Status: RO Hans Majest{t hade synpunkter p} genomf|randet av sin tornering; s} h{r skall det vara! >> Kungliga Pristorneringen/the Royal Prize Tourney! >> >> Hans majest{t Morgan har givit mig {ran att arrangera en pristornering >> under Dubbelkriget. Prelimin{rt kommer den att {ga rum p} Tisdagen. Spikat : MTndag 13.00 enligt mitt schema....vi kan eventuellt flytta den till Tisdag om det finns mycket goda skLl. Vi bygger Viborg under Tisdagen !!! Innan torneringen bNrjar kommer kLmparnas hjLlmar att sLttas upp pT "display", damerna gTr fNrbi dessa och ser om de kLnner igen nTgon kLmpe som har fNrolLmpat dem. Om sT Lr fallet meddelar de mig (Frithiof) om detta, samt vad fNrolLmpningens art Lr. Om jag i samrTd med Nvriga nLravarande damer finner skLlet gott, tages kLmpens hjLlm ned/bort och han/hon mT ej lLngre deltaga i torneringen. > Regler f|r torneringen: > > Formen kommer att bli det som p} engelska kallas f|r "at the Barriers", > det vill s{ga k{mparna st}r p} varsin sida av ett l}gt skrank. Ett > enkelt s{tt att begr{nsa stridsplatsen utan att riskera att k{mparna > springer ner listrepet. > > torneringen kommer att g} i tre omg}ngar med olika vapenstilar: > Vapen och sk|ld, tv}handsvapen/st}ngvapen, och SPJUT! Just det, > f{ktning med spjut! S{tt i g}ng och tr{na! > > Motst}ndarna kommer att lottas varje omg}ng, men inget par k{mpar kommer > att m|tas mer {n en g}ng. > > Varje tr{ff ger en po{ng. Varje match ger maximalt tre po{ng. > Tr{ffar rapporteras bara, man f|rlorar allts} inga kroppsdelar. N{r torneringen Lr Nver gNr damerna och Hans Majest{t en gemensam bedNmning av kLmparna, dLr vi bedNmer nedanstTende punkter ! Denna bedNmning ligger sedan till grund fNr val av segrare. Naturligtvis kommer vi Lven taga hLnsyn till visad skicklighet ocksT !!! > ridderlighet, elegans, och heraldisk uppvisning. > > Observera att detta {r prelimin{ra regler; > de kan komma att {ndras om tillr{ckliga sk{l finnes! Det fanns allts}! > Frithiof Sigvardsson Sk{gge Korrigerad av Hans Majest{t! From nordmark-request Wed Apr 20 18:03:01 1994 Received: from sunic.sunet.se (sunic.sunet.se [192.36.125.2]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA07183 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 1994 18:03:00 +0200 Received: from hjds90.hj.se by sunic.sunet.se (8.6.8/2.03) id SAA20390; Wed, 20 Apr 1994 18:02:57 +0200 Received: by hjds90.hj.se (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.18.1 #18.38) id ; Wed, 20 Apr 94 18:03 MET Received: from TRISSE/M_QUEUE by trisse.hj.se (Mercury 1.11); Wed, 20 Apr 94 18:03:04 GMT+100 Received: from M_QUEUE by TRISSE (Mercury 1.11); Wed, 20 Apr 94 18:02:37 GMT+100 From: "Padraig / Anders" Organization: University of Jonkoping, Sweden To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 18:02:32 MET+1 Subject: MAGNA CARTA! Priority: normal X-mailer: PMail v3.0 (R1) Message-ID: <37DA25507C@trisse.hj.se> Status: RO Harald manar, d”da en oskyldig redan idag! Propagandaministeriet genom Padraig / Anders "It was a night, oh what a night, L.A. burnin' bright, oh what a night" - Shock to the system Billy Idol From nordmark-request Wed Apr 20 23:45:34 1994 Received: from meryl.csd.uu.se (meryl.csd.uu.se [130.238.11.31]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA11867 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 1994 23:45:33 +0200 Received: by meryl.csd.uu.se id AA18843 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Wed, 20 Apr 1994 23:45:31 +0200 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 23:45:31 +0200 Message-Id: <199404202145.AA18843@meryl.csd.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: B}gskytte vid Magna Charta From: Sender: vader@csd.uu.se X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: RO William de Corbie h{lsar alla! Eftersom hans majest{ts regler f|r Magna Charta inte inneh|ll n}got om b}gskytte, k{nner jag mig manad att meddela f|ljande om b}gskytte- t{vlingen: Som alla vet, vill jag verka f|r st|rre autenticitet b}de vad g{ller material och t{vlingsformer. Hittills har praktiskt taget alla t{v- lingar i Drachenwald skett enligt IKAC eller Royal Rounds -- d{rf|r beh|vs nu ett visst experimenterande om vi ska kunna hitta ett alter- nativt system. T[VLING Vid Magna Charta ska vi testa en kombinerad t{vling som best}r dels av tavelskytte, dels av "clout shoot", allts} att droppa pilar i en cirkel av halmbalar (eller liknande) p} marken p} stort avst}nd. Tavelskyttet kommer att ske med en serie om 6 pilar p} vardera 20, 30 och 40 yards, mot en vit kvadrat som {r 21 x 21 cm (ett A4-ark allts} som man vikt och rivit av). Jag vet inte hur sv}rt detta blir i prakti- ken, men n}nstans m}ste man b|rja. Eventuellt kan vi l{gga till en v{nda p} 50 yards... L}nga skjutavst}nd {r autentiskt! Visar det sig att folk inte tr{ffar alls s} kan vi alltid dubbla storleken p} m}let. Vi f}r se vad tr{ningen ger vid handen. Clout-skyttet blir, om jag lyckas hitta en l{mplig plats, fritt antal pilar p} en minut mot en 10 yards cirkel p} 100 yards avst}nd. Vet inte om ett s}dant avst}nd g}r att fixa p} platsen -- vi g|r det s} l}ngt det g}r. Jag vet att Torsheim t{nker k|ra en del annorlunda skjutningar i Kn{cke- br|dskriget, sl}r det v{l ut kommer jag kanske att anv{nda deras ideer i Magna Charta ocks}. F|rra }ret r{knade vi det totala antalet po{ng f|r respektive sida, vilket ledde till en f|rkrossande seger f|r Sir Morgan eftersom han hade fler b}gskyttar. I }r kommer viss modifikation att ske beroende p} den utrustning man anv{nder. UTRUSTNING Utg}ngspunkten {r moderna b}gar. Till dessa r{knar jag alla is{rtagbara b}gar och alla b}gar med enbart konstmaterial i lemmarna. Om man anv{nder utrustning som i n}got avseende {r mer autentisk {n detta, f}r man bonus enligt f|ljande: 1. L}ngb}ge eller ej is{rtagbar rekurvb}ge av enbart tr{ ger 2 tr{ffar. 2. Engelsk (D-formad) l}ngb}ge eller b}ge som skytten tillverkat sj{lv ger 3 tr{ffar. (G{ller ej rottingb}gar, om du inte kan dokumentera att s}dana anv{ndes under medeltiden.) Ej kumulativt med punkt 1. 3. Den som skjuter pilar med s}gad nock (ej plastnock) f}r ett bonus p} 2 tr{ffar. 4. Den som anv{nder b}gstr{ng av icke-syntetiskt material f}r ett bonus p} 3 tr{ffar. 5. Den som inte anv{nder systemskytte (eng. "string walking") f}r 1 tr{ff. Det betyder allts} att man kan f} upp till 9 tr{ffar utan att tr{ffa tavlan med en enda pil... tack vare sin autentiska utrustning och skjutstil! Eftersom det h|gsta m|jliga antalet tr{ffar i tavelskyttet {r 18, betyder det att man kan n} l}ngt genom att vara autentisk! Det finns inga begr{nsningar i fr}ga om b}gars styrka (dragvikt). I |vrigt g{ller som vanligt i SCA: inga sikten, stabilisatorer, clickers, compound-b}gar, munm{rken, siktmarkeringar p} b}gen, osv. Pilar ska vara av tr{ med naturfj{drar. H|ns f}r inte anv{ndas som ammunition. --- Vidare kommer det att finnas m|jlighet att bli auktoriserad som b}gskyttemarsk f|r den som s} |nskar. William From nordmark-request Thu Apr 21 09:12:40 1994 Received: from hplb.hpl.hp.com (hplb.hpl.hp.com [15.255.59.2]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA17180 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 1994 09:12:38 +0200 Received: from hpustoix.sweden.hp.com by hplb.hpl.hp.com; Thu, 21 Apr 1994 08:09:21 +0100 Received: by hpustoix.sweden.hp.com (1.36.108.7/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA12704; Thu, 21 Apr 1994 09:12:31 +0200 From: Morgan Broman Message-Id: <9404210712.AA12704@hpustoix.sweden.hp.com> Subject: Vad aer en Paer..? To: nordmark@mother.ludd.luth.se (Nordmark mailing list (SCA)) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 94 9:12:30 METDST Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25] Status: RO 940421 Kista, Sweden Till alla laesare av NML, paa foerekommen anledning, som man brukar saega..;) Vi har under en tid nu sett/laest/tagit del av en hel del rekommendationer, en del av dessa har gaellt SCA's hoegsta utmaerkel- se Paerskap, framfoer allt Ridderskap. Efter att ha sett och tagit del av dessa tror jag det kan vara paa sin plats med lite intressant information...;) Foerst av allt, INGEN utmaerkelse ges bara foer att man "varit med laenge i foereningen", utmaerkelser ges till folk, som foerhoppningsvis, bidragit till foereningens verksamhet via aktivt arbete. T.ex som aembetsmaen eller genom att arrangera ett flertal "event", eller genom att flertal gaanger ha staellt upp och hjaelpt till vid olika aktiviteter. Naer man skriver en rekommendation skall den innehaalla foeljande foer att vara av naagot vaerde (taenk paa att Kungligheterna inte kaenner ALLA): Personens mundana namn, SCA-namn, vad personen har bidragit med, t.ex vilka event han/hon hjaelpt till vid, vilket/vilka aembeten de haft och hur laenge, om de gjort ett bra jobb. Vilken lokal grupp de tillhoer. Ditt eget mundana namn, SCA-namn och grupp. Vad gaeller Paerskap saa behoevs det betydligt mer : Foerutom ovanstaaende, bilder med dokumentation av Hantverk (foer Lager- kransar), bilder av kaempen i rustning fraan olika torneringar/krig (foer Ridderskap), dokumentation av aembeten med datum etc (foer samtliga), dokumentation med datum av oevriga aktiviteter (fraemst foer Pelikaner). Dokumentation av tillfaellen naer personen arbetat med att laera ut sina kunskaper till andra. En beskrivning av personens oevriga kvaliteter, hoeviskhet, artighet, ridderlighet etc...Kort sagt paavisa att personen aer en drivkraft i den verksamhet vi aegnar oss aat, en av de personer som man kan se till foer hjaelp och stoed. Visa att personens verksamhet paa sikt gynnar hela Kungariket. TIPS : Oftast skall personen ha varit med foereningen ett antal aar (5 eller mer...) foer att ha hunnit laera sig hur saker ting fungerar, samt varit aktiv, foer att anses som en laemplig kandidiat. Hur kommmer daa en Paer till fraagar man sig. Jo, det aer inte en enkel process. Rekommendations-brevet aer bara ett foersta steg. Brevet skickas till Kungarikets Kung/Drottning, Kronprins/Kronprinsessa samt till beroerd Ordens sekreterare. Dessa laeser brevet och tar sedan upp det till diskussion vid ett sk Paermoete, dessa haalls 4 ggr/aar. Vid Paermoetet diskuteras den rekommenderade personen ingaaende. Orden fattar sedan ett beslut som de delger Kronan. Kronan vidtar sedan aatgaerd, oftast baserat paa Ordens beslut. I allmaenhet begaer Orden tid foer att se mer paa Kandidaten och/eller begaera in mer information om kandidaten. Personen saetts paa en sk bevakningslista. Som ni kan foerstaa kan denna process ta ett eller flera aar. Vad vi, Morgan och Alienor, sett som viktigt aer att Orden inte har naagra allvarliga in- vaendningar mot att en person upphoejs till Paer. Detta foer att inte indi- viden ifraaga skall hamna i en situation daer inte de andra Paererna respek- terar personen ifraaga. Vi har idag ett hyfsat antal Paerer i Nordmark, av dessa kraevs det att de deltager i Kungarikets verksamheter, att de framstaar som ledare och driv- krafter inom sina olika omraaden. Det aer inte alltid laett, och kom ihaag att Paerskapet aer den enda utmaerkelse som faktiskt foerpliktigar till ytterligare arbete ! Till sist, ett par myter, och deras doed : Man blir INTE riddare i SCA foer att man aer bra paa att slaass. Inte en- bart, det kraevs mer aen saa. Paa det viset skiljer vi oss fraan verklig- hetens ridderskap. Man blir INTE Pelikan bara foer att man goer sitt jobb. Man skall goera mer aen vad som kan vara rimligt att begaera. Man blir INTE Lagerkrans foer att man goer maanga draekter. Man skall ut- veckla tekniker, laera ut och forska inom sitt omraade. Har ni naagra fraagor/undringar/funderingar ? Hoer gaerna av er till under- tecknad....;) Med foerhoppning om att ni funnit detta intressant...;) Morgan// -- HP : Morgan Broman mabr@sweden.hp.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- What is life, but a sequence of fragments of time put together in a random fashion, to create eternity... [R] Shade ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nothing stated here is an official statement by the Hewlett-Packard Corp. From nordmark-request Thu Apr 21 10:02:42 1994 Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA17693 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 1994 10:02:41 +0200 Received: from macpost.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP (5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA16244; Thu, 21 Apr 94 10:06:09 +0200 Subject: Dubbelkriget ??? To: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se Date: Thu, 21 Apr 94 10:03:14 +0200 Message-Id: <940421.100314.57717@macpost.lu.se> Status: RO BOJKOTTAR NORDMARK DUBBELKRIGET??? Trots protester och p}minnelse har Sparren _f|r andra g}ngen_ tryckt fel annons f|r Dubbelkriget. Den riktiga versionen har skickats ut h{r p} NML och via brev till alla lokala drotsar i Nordmark, i naivt hopp om att informationen den v{gen kunde spridas till andra. - Talar Nordmarksborna inte med varandra? - Kan Nordmarksborna inte l{sa & skriva? - Vill Nordmarksborna inte ha n}got Dubbelkrig i v}r? Med undantag av n}gra enstaka e-mail till min dator har till dags dato INGEN FR]N NORDMARK UTANF\R TORSHEIM anm{lt sig till Kriget. Noll. Zilch. Tomma m{ngden. Zero. Nada. L}t mig s{ga det h{r helt tydligt, ifall det hittills varit oklart. Den 25 april {r SISTA anm{lningsdagen. Inte f|rsta, allts}. Sista. Ryktesv{gen har det framkommit att en del personer beter sig som om de t{nkte vara med p} Dubbelkriget. Vissa bland dem har t o m s{rskilda arbetsuppgifter i samband med t ex Magna Carta. [nd} {r de {nnu inte anm{lda. Andra har t{nkt sig att {ta "allm{nna" frukostar och luncher. [nd} har de {nnu inte best{llt. Sena anm{lningar kommer dock inte att hamna i papperskorgen. Med tanke p} de 6000 kr som Torsheim ligger ute med i f|rskottshyra och med tanke p} den v{ntade tillstr|mningen fr}n Tyskland s} skulle det h{r vara ett osedvanligt dumt tilf{lle att f|rs|ka statuera exempel. Jag kan bara be er att vara lite hyggliga mot oss som jobbar med det h{r. Det kan ju vara trevligt att en bit i f|rv{g veta om man ska utfodra 30 pers eller 300, liksom hur m}nga man planerar l{ger f|r. Kartor, schema, info om utrustning f|r kurser vid Universitetet, reglerna f|r krigen och annat matnyttigt vill ni v{l ocks} f} er tillskickat innan ni ger er iv{g hit. Jamen, om inte alla har tillg}ng till dator eller fax s} tar s}dant TID!!! Det h{r beh|ver man veta f|r att anm{la sig: deltagaravgiften {r 200 kr, rabatt f|r SCA-medlemmar 20 kr. F|r beh|vande finns det ett begr{nsat antal sovplatser inomhus (grupplogi, ingen extra kostnad) och m|jlighet att abonnera p} frukostar (15 kr styck) och luncher (30 kr styck). Betalning till SKA-Torsheim, pg 33 16 49-4, senast NU. Skriftlig anm{lan, ocks} senast NU, till autokraten, Lady Catrin Gwynystlum (J G Spanne, Nyckelkroken 50, 226 47 Lund, 046-109750 jobb, 129985 hem inte efter kl 21, fax 046-105431, e-mail Janna.Spanne@Kansli.LTH.se) S} kryp fram fr}n under era stenar, skrivbord, dunt{cken, parasoller, eller var ni annars g|mmer er. Sprid det h{r meddelandet och framf|r allt A N M [ L E R ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! /Catrin Janna.Spanne@Kansli.LTH.se From nordmark-request Thu Apr 21 10:15:30 1994 Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA17896 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 1994 10:15:28 +0200 Received: from macpost.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP (5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA16733; Thu, 21 Apr 94 10:18:57 +0200 Subject: Dubbelkriget??? Fel!!! To: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se Date: Thu, 21 Apr 94 10:16:01 +0200 Message-Id: <940421.101601.57724@macpost.lu.se> Status: RO Fel, fel, fel! Vill ni faxa och anm{la er till Dubbelkriget s} {r numret 046 - 10 45 31 och inget annat! Ber om urs{kt! /Catrin Janna.Spanne@Kansli.LTH.se From nordmark-request Fri Apr 22 21:26:07 1994 Received: from meryl.csd.uu.se (meryl.csd.uu.se [130.238.11.31]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA13606 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 1994 21:26:07 +0200 Received: by meryl.csd.uu.se id AA28623 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Fri, 22 Apr 1994 21:26:05 +0200 Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 21:26:05 +0200 Message-Id: <199404221926.AA28623@meryl.csd.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: Census From: Sender: vader@csd.uu.se X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: RO Jag vill }ter p}minna om att Nordmarks Census finns att k|pa f|r 25 kr som s{tts in p} det vanliga postgirot. Censusen finns {ven att f} gratis i elektronisk form f|r den som har tillg}ng till e-mail och en modern dator. Registret {r gjort i FileMaker Pro, komprimerat med StuffIt och tar 144K i BinHex-format. Jag skickar p} beg{ran. William From nordmark-request Sat Apr 23 12:57:09 1994 Received: from meryl.csd.uu.se (meryl.csd.uu.se [130.238.11.31]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA22913 for ; Sat, 23 Apr 1994 12:57:08 +0200 Received: by meryl.csd.uu.se id AA04379 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Sat, 23 Apr 1994 12:57:06 +0200 Date: Sat, 23 Apr 1994 12:57:06 +0200 Message-Id: <199404231057.AA04379@meryl.csd.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: Lagen From: Sender: vader@csd.uu.se X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: RO William de Corbie h{lsar er. Om jag minns r{tt besl|t Tinget att v{nta med den slutgiltiga formuleringen av den lagtext som beskriver Dr|mmens Orden. Den skulle skrivas av baron Erik i samarbete med undertecknad. Efter en tid fick jag via Heloise den formulering som Erik hade t{nkt ut. Det var min avsikt att kontakta baronen f|r att diskutera den exakta ordalydelsen. Vi tv} har lite olika s{tt att formulera oss; jag har anstr{ngt mig f|r att anv{nda ett k{rvt, korthugget spr}k, medan Erik hellre uttrycker sig mer full|digt och m}lande. Jag ville hitta en formulering som inte avvek alltf|r mycket till stilen fr}n den |vriga lagtexten, men som {nd} f|rmedlade samma mening och inneh}ll. Efter en del funderingar gjorde jag ett f|rslag, som jag skrev in i lagtexten som ett alternativ; ni som f}tt lagen per e-mail kan se hur det s}g ut. Emellertid fick jag inte tid att ta den d{r diskussionen med baronen, som man n{mnde p} Tinget. Bilhaveri, datorhaveri och extrem arbetsbelastning gjorde att allt blev liggande. S} fick jag budskap fr}n Heloise att jag m}ste f} |ver den slutliga lagtexten till Celemon, som skulle |vers{tta den. Eftersom jag tyckte att det fanns fler som kunde ha gl{dje av att f} lagtexten, skickade jag den till hela Prath|gen. I den inledande kommentaren bad jag uttryckligen att den som hittade n}gra tveksamheter skulle kontakta mig. Nu visar det sig att n}gon tydligen inte f|ljt denna uppmaning utan i st{llet kontaktat baronen och sagt ungef{r att "William har {ndrat p} det du skrev", vilket i s} fall {r en ren l|gn och dessutom en elakartad s}dan, som inte kan ha n}got annat syfte {n att uts} split. Efter att nu ha diskuterat det h{r med Erik, konstaterar jag att det {r b{st att formuleringen f}r st} s} som Erik skrev den. Jag ber d{rf|r alla som f}tt lagtexten att radera "Williams formulering" innan ni sprider texten vidare. Slutligen vill jag {n en g}ng f{sta allas uppm{rksamhet p} att det som ni f}r via Prath|gen aldrig har n}gon officiell giltighet om detta inte speciellt anges. Den text jag skickade ut var en version som gjordes efter Tinget, d{r jag tog med de {ndringar och r{ttelser som Tinget beslutade. Texten {r dock inte verifierad eller korrekturl{st, och kan mycket v{l inneh}lla fel eller tveksamheter. William From nordmark-request Mon Apr 25 17:02:46 1994 Received: from sunic.sunet.se (sunic.sunet.se [192.36.125.2]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA03239 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 1994 17:02:44 +0200 Received: from hjds90.hj.se by sunic.sunet.se (8.6.8/2.03) id RAA21515; Mon, 25 Apr 1994 17:02:39 +0200 Received: by hjds90.hj.se (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.18.1 #18.38) id ; Mon, 25 Apr 94 17:02 MET Received: from TRISSE/M_QUEUE by trisse.hj.se (Mercury 1.11); Mon, 25 Apr 94 17:02:46 GMT+100 Received: from M_QUEUE by TRISSE (Mercury 1.11); Mon, 25 Apr 94 17:02:32 GMT+100 From: "Padraig / Anders" Organization: University of Jonkoping, Sweden To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 17:02:28 MET+1 Subject: Re: King's Prize Tourney Priority: normal X-mailer: PMail v3.0 (R1) Message-ID: Status: RO > Kungliga Pristorneringen/the Royal Prize Tourney! > > Hans majest{t Morgan har givit mig {ran att arrangera en pristornering > under Dubbelkriget. Prelimikn{rt kommer den att {ga rum p} Tisdagen. ¸hh, raj-raj :) > Jag {mnar d{rf|r ta tillf{llet i akt att prova ut en del nya ideer p} > gr{ddan av Nordmarks k{mpar, s}v{l som p} tillresta fr}n andra delar av > den K{nda V{rlden. Dessutom, p} grund av yrkesskada, kommer jag att > f|rs|ka g|ra detta till en heraldisk h{ndelse av maximala m}tt. L†ter asbizarrt. > S}lunda torde de som {mnar deltaga i torneringen f|rse sig icke blott med > en sk|ld bem}lad med sitt vapen, utan {ven en heraldisk vapenrock/tabard. > Hj{lmprydnad ger ett extra plus! [r {ven de deltagandes damer/herrar > kl{dda i heraldisk surcote eller motsvarande blir glansen och st}ten > i det n{rmaste total! Ahh, d„r kommer den lilla haken... M†ste damen faktiskt vara n„rvarande f”r att man skall f† st„lla upp? Min kommer inte f”rr„n p† Onsdag, och sj„lv „mnar jag f”rs”ka masa mig dit redan f”rsta helgen... Det vore liksom trevligt att kunna vara med, men utan dam blir det kanske bulle. Hon finns ju faktiskt om „n inte i n†gon fysisk manifestation (annat „n i formen av favouren jag b„r :) > Regler f|r torneringen: > > Formen kommer att bli det som p} engelska kallas f|r "at the Barriers", > det vill s{ga k{mparna st}r p} varsin sida av ett l}gt skrank. Ett > enkelt s{tt att begr{nsa stridsplatsen utan att riskera att k{mparna > springer ner listrepet. > > tornewringen kommer att g} i tre omg}ngar med olika vapenstilar: > Vapen och sk|ld, tv}handsvapen/st}ngvapen, och SPJUT! Just det, > f{ktning med spjut! S{tt i g}ng och tr{na! > > Motst}ndarna kommer att lottas varje omg}ng, men inget par k{mpar kommer > att m|tas mer {n en g}ng. > > Varje tr{ff ger en po{ng. Varje match ger maximalt tre po{ng. > Tr{ffar rapporteras bara, man f|rlorar allts} inga kroppsdelar. > > Den som har flest po{ng efter tre omg}ngar har vunnit. > Vid lika po{ng kommer damernas r|st att f{lla utslaget, baserat p} > ridderlighet, elegans, och heraldisk uppvisning. T„mligen bizarrt, kan nog inte bli tuffare :) > Observera att detta {r prelimin{ra regler; > de kan komma att {ndras om tillr{ckliga sk{l finnes! > > Frithiof Sigvardsson Sk{gge Vi ses (Jag betalar f”r ”vrigt in till 2xkriget idag) Padraig / Anders "It was a night, oh what a night, L.A. burnin' bright, oh what a night" - Shock to the system Billy Idol From nordmark-request Mon Apr 25 17:26:13 1994 Received: from madonna.Kemi.UU.SE (madonna.kemi.uu.se [130.238.66.25]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA03527 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 1994 17:26:05 +0200 From: frithiof@oorgan.dnet Received: from OORGAN.DECnet MAIL11D_V3 by madonna.Kemi.UU.SE with SMTP id AA03837 (5.65c+/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Mon, 25 Apr 1994 17:31:43 +0200 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 17:31:42 +0200 Message-Id: <199404251531.AA03837@madonna.Kemi.UU.SE> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: King's Prize Tourney Status: RO Padraig skrev om the King's Prize Tourney p} prath|gen, men hade tydligen missat min errata till det f|rsta meddelandet. D{rf|r kommer h{r en repris p} denna, till hans och alla andras upplysning. Sprid denna till alla som kan vara intresserade! ---------------------- Hans Majest{t hade synpunkter p} genomf|randet av sin tornering; s} h{r skall det vara! >> Kungliga Pristorneringen/the Royal Prize Tourney! >> >> Hans majest{t Morgan har givit mig {ran att arrangera en pristornering >> under Dubbelkriget. Prelimin{rt kommer den att {ga rum p} Tisdagen. Spikat : MTndag 13.00 enligt mitt schema....vi kan eventuellt flytta den till Tisdag om det finns mycket goda skLl. Vi bygger Viborg under Tisdagen !!! Innan torneringen bNrjar kommer kLmparnas hjLlmar att sLttas upp pT "display", damerna gTr fNrbi dessa och ser om de kLnner igen nTgon kLmpe som har fNrolLmpat dem. Om sT Lr fallet meddelar de mig (Frithiof) om detta, samt vad fNrolLmpningens art Lr. Om jag i samrTd med Nvriga nLravarande damer finner skLlet gott, tages kLmpens hjLlm ned/bort och han/hon mT ej lLngre deltaga i torneringen. > Regler f|r torneringen: > > Formen kommer att bli det som p} engelska kallas f|r "at the Barriers", > det vill s{ga k{mparna st}r p} varsin sida av ett l}gt skrank. Ett > enkelt s{tt att begr{nsa stridsplatsen utan att riskera att k{mparna > springer ner listrepet. > > torneringen kommer att g} i tre omg}ngar med olika vapenstilar: > Vapen och sk|ld, tv}handsvapen/st}ngvapen, och SPJUT! Just det, > f{ktning med spjut! S{tt i g}ng och tr{na! > > Motst}ndarna kommer att lottas varje omg}ng, men inget par k{mpar kommer > att m|tas mer {n en g}ng. > > Varje tr{ff ger en po{ng. Varje match ger maximalt tre po{ng. > Tr{ffar rapporteras bara, man f|rlorar allts} inga kroppsdelar. N{r torneringen Lr Nver gNr damerna och Hans Majest{t en gemensam bedNmning av kLmparna, dLr vi bedNmer nedanstTende punkter ! Denna bedNmning ligger sedan till grund fNr val av segrare. Naturligtvis kommer vi Lven taga hLnsyn till visad skicklighet ocksT !!! > ridderlighet, elegans, och heraldisk uppvisning. > > Observera att detta {r prelimin{ra regler; > de kan komma att {ndras om tillr{ckliga sk{l finnes! Det fanns allts}! > Frithiof Sigvardsson Sk{gge Korrigerad av Hans Majest{t! ------------------------------- Vad betr{ffar deltagande med avl{gsen dam, f}r Lord Padraig v{l v{dja till Hans Majest{ts n}diga v{lvilja. Fritte From nordmark-request Wed Apr 27 13:58:46 1994 Received: from ped.gu.se (hands.ped.gu.se [130.241.100.2]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA03810 for ; Wed, 27 Apr 1994 13:58:45 +0200 Message-Id: <199404271158.NAA03810@mother.ludd.luth.se> Received: from asp004.asp.gu.se by ped.gu.se with SMTP (1.37.109.8/16.2) id AA24669; Wed, 27 Apr 1994 14:01:11 +0200 Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 14:01:11 +0200 To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: m.demaret@ped.gu.se (Marianne Demaret) X-Sender: pedmarid@ped.gu.se Subject: H|stevenemang (sprid!) Status: RO Salve! H{r kommer lite f|rhandsinformation till alla p} prath|gen, sprid det g{rna till dem som inte har tillg}ng till detta media. Den fagra 'kantonen' Gotvik t{nker h}lla ett evenemang i h|st. Boka redan nu helgen 14-16 oktober om du {r intresserad att komma och f|rkovra och f|rlusta dig! Vi {mnar h}lla ett universitet med b}de praktiska och teoretiska kurser, allt fr}n matlagning till k{mpalek vore roligt att f} med. Om ni vill st{lla upp och h}lla i n}gon kurs eller har n}gra roliga id~er s} h|r av er till mig. Naturligtvis blir det bankett eller g{stabud p} l|rdagkv{llen och frukostar och lunch, samt antagligen en enklare pub p} fredagkv{llen. Platsen f|r evenemanget ligger lite nordost om G|teborg, utanf|r Gr}bo, vid en sj| l}ngt inne i skogen, med bara n}gra sommarst{llen i n{rheten. D{r {r mycket natursk|nt. Det {r Unga \rnar som har en friluftsg}rd med stor matsal och s{ngplatser f|r 38 personer + golvplatser och plats f|r att sl} upp paviljonger. Dessutom finns det ett stork|k, bastu mm. Det g}r att ta sig till Gr}bo centrum med t ex t}g och buss, och sista str{ckan hj{lper vi till med transport. V{gbeskrivningar kommer att fixas. Mer info senare! Varma h{lsningar Estridh Marianne Demaret m.demaret@ped.gu.se Tel: 031-773 2442 Fax: 031-773 2380 Tel hem: 031-304699 ( inte efter 22.00 ! ) Adress: Marianne ]sblom Demaret Kaprisgatan 204 424 44 ANGERED From nordmark-request Thu Apr 28 08:27:37 1994 Received: from hal.ludd.luth.se (bubba@hal.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.4]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA29648 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 1994 08:27:36 +0200 From: "U.J|rgen \hman" Received: (bubba@localhost) by hal.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) id IAA06822 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se; Thu, 28 Apr 1994 08:27:33 +0200 Message-Id: <199404280627.IAA06822@hal.ludd.luth.se> Subject: Kr|nik|r & Seneschal To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se (sca) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 08:27:32 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 293 Status: RO Salve alla Ulf h{r , kan n}gon tala om f|r mig namn och adresser till Kungarikets kr|nik|r respektive seneschal. Jag har inga tidningar eller andra papper med mig h{r och skulle beh|va veta detta helst innan 1200 idag (torsdag) Tack till den/de som kan hj{lpa mig. Ulf Mjoedtunga Frostheim. From nordmark-request Thu Apr 28 14:15:23 1994 Received: from meryl.csd.uu.se (meryl.csd.uu.se [130.238.11.31]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA01774; Thu, 28 Apr 1994 14:15:22 +0200 Received: by meryl.csd.uu.se id AA06924 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4); Thu, 28 Apr 1994 14:14:57 +0200 Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 14:14:57 +0200 Message-Id: <199404281214.AA06924@meryl.csd.uu.se> To: bubba@ludd.luth.se Cc: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-Reply-To: "U.J|rgen \hman"'s message of Thu, 28 Apr 1994 08:27:32 +0200 (MET DST) <199404280627.IAA06822@hal.ludd.luth.se> Subject: Kr|nik|r & Seneschal From: Sender: vader@csd.uu.se X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: RO Drachenwalds kr|nik|r: Lady Ceridwen ferch Rhys ap Michael Lisa Mitchell Box 3008 RAF Alconbury Huntingdon, Cambs PE17 5DA United Kingdom tel +44-480 413270 CompuServe: 71461.303 Drachenwalds drots: Baroness Maire Ua Casig Mary Hickey Alte Argonner Kaserne 416 Apt 10 63457 Hanau Tyskland tel +49-6181 52142 CompuServe: 100040.134 From nordmark-request Thu Apr 28 18:13:28 1994 Received: from mailgate.ericsson.se (mailgate.ericsson.se [130.100.2.2]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA04050 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 1994 18:13:23 +0200 Received: from eds05 (eds05.ericsson.se) by mailgate.ericsson.se (4.1/SMI-4.1-MAILGATE1.14) id AA21773; Thu, 28 Apr 94 18:13:13 +0200 Registered-Mail-Reply-Requested-By: "ERA.ERAAINA" Received: from mrp.ericsson.se by eds.ericsson.se (PMDF V4.2-15 #1) id <01HBPODSPF8W8X9X05@eds.ericsson.se>; Thu, 28 Apr 1994 18:13:56 +0200 Received: with PMDF-MR; Thu, 28 Apr 1994 18:07:22 +0200 Mr-Received: by mta EDS05; Relayed; Thu, 28 Apr 1994 18:07:22 +0200 (+0200) Alternate-Recipient: prohibited Disclose-Recipients: prohibited Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 18:06:00 +0200 From: "ERA.ERAAINA" Subject: Heloise telenr To: NORDMARK@LUDD.LUTH.SE Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Ua-Content-Id: yRvJpKDVAkoAkeFM X400-Mts-Identifier: [;22708182404991/1436688@EDS] Hop-Count: 1 Status: RO --- Received from ERA.ERAAINA 08-757 3505 94-04-28 18.06 -> VAX.NORDMARK..LUDD.LUTH.SE..INET -: - - - - - - - - - - > MAIL USER IN VAX AND INTERNET Salve, Jag hoppas ingen försöker nå mig på jobbet m h a det telefon- nummer som finns angivet i censusen. Det är nämligen fel. Mitt hemtelefonnummer är dock rätt. Bara så ni vet. Vore tacksam om detta spreds. Heloise From nordmark-request Thu Apr 28 19:32:00 1994 Received: from meryl.csd.uu.se (meryl.csd.uu.se [130.238.11.31]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA04966 for ; Thu, 28 Apr 1994 19:31:59 +0200 Received: by meryl.csd.uu.se id AA22542 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for NORDMARK@ludd.luth.se); Thu, 28 Apr 1994 19:31:55 +0200 Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 19:31:55 +0200 Message-Id: <199404281731.AA22542@meryl.csd.uu.se> To: ERA.ERAAINA@memo3.ericsson.se Cc: NORDMARK@ludd.luth.se In-Reply-To: "ERA.ERAAINA"'s message of Thu, 28 Apr 1994 18:06:00 +0200 Subject: Heloise telenr From: Sender: vader@csd.uu.se X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: RO Hummel. Vill du att jobbtelefonen ska finnas i kommande censusar? I s} fall vore det bra om jag fick det s} ska jag r{tta i registret. William From nordmark-request Fri Apr 29 14:35:54 1994 Received: from world.celsiustech.se (world.celsiustech.se [139.58.1.3]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA12091 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 1994 14:35:52 +0200 Received: from localhost (leeu@localhost) by world.celsiustech.se (8.6.4/8.6.4) id OAA18735 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se; Fri, 29 Apr 1994 14:35:44 +0200 From: Leif Euren Message-Id: <199404291235.OAA18735@world.celsiustech.se> Subject: Marknadsf|rare s|kes! To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se (Nordmark Mailing List (Prath|gen)) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 14:35:42 MET DST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.2 PL11] Status: RO Salve, alla p} Prath|gen! Peder Klingrode, Nordmarks Drots, h{r denna g}ng, och jag s|ker en marknadsf|rar-assistent till Nordmark! Det {r ju s} att Nordmark ska f|rs|ka bli furstend|me, och de som beslutar om detta (Board of Directors) tittar d} bl_a p} hur mycket aktiviteter vi har i gruppen. Detta g|r de genom att l{sa hur m}nga evenemangs-annonser vi har i Dragon's Tale. Och med det m}ttet har vi knappt n}gra aktiviteter alls! Varf|r {r det s} sv}rt att annonsera i Dragon's Tale? Jag tror ett av sk{len {r sp}kbarri{ren, en annan att det k{nns lite meningsl|st (det kommer {nd} inget folk fr}n Tyskland eller England till v}ra lokala evenemang). N}, nu har jag gjort klart att det inte {r meningsl|st: det hj{lper Nordmark att bli furstend|me. Men spr}kbarri{ren finns fortfarande. D{rf|r s|ker jag nu en assitent som kan hj{lpa Nordmarks autokrater med att f} in sina annonser i Dragon's Tale. Det g{ller att formulera dem, se till att de inneh}ller tillr{cklig information och att de s{nds till r{tt instans. Tillg}ng till Email {r ett krav, eftersom detta {r det snabbaste och s{kraste s{ttet att kommunicera b}de med Drachenwalds drots, kr|nik|r, och mig. Skicka alla svar direkt till mig! Peder Klingrode | Leif Euren Stockholm, Sweden Holmrike, Nordmark, Drachenwald | leeu@celsiustech.se From nordmark-request Fri Apr 29 15:05:36 1994 Received: from world.celsiustech.se (world.celsiustech.se [139.58.1.3]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA12287 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 1994 15:05:35 +0200 Received: from localhost (leeu@localhost) by world.celsiustech.se (8.6.4/8.6.4) id PAA19496 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se; Fri, 29 Apr 1994 15:05:26 +0200 From: Leif Euren Message-Id: <199404291305.PAA19496@world.celsiustech.se> Subject: Re: Marknadsf|rare s|kes! To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se (Nordmark Mailing List (Prath|gen)) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 15:05:23 MET DST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.2 PL11] Status: RO Till alla p} Prath|gen fr}n Peder igen: Ang}ende mitt s|kande efter en marknadsf|rare, fick jag f|ljande fr}ga: > Jag undrar om det {r marknadsf|rar-assistenten som ska sk|ta hela > Nordmarks annonserande i DT eller om densamme skall tj{na som > r}dgivare och st|d f|r autokraterna som vill annonsera. Jag t{nkte mig alternativ 2: att han (eller hon) ska tj{na som r}dgivare, st|d och f|rmedlare f|r de autokrater som vill annonsera. Vi ska inte f|rl{nga informations-v{garna, och inf|ra ett led till f|r en annons att g}. Den som vill sk|ta kontakterna med DT sj{lv, och tror sig kunna det, f}r sj{lvfallet g|ra det. Det {r ju s} det ska g} till egentligen. Men f|r dem som upplever detta som besv{rligt, ska det finnas hj{lp; n}gon som som k{nner till de administrativa krumbukterna och kan hj{lpa folk tillr{tta. Tack f|r att du fr}gade. Jag var lite oklar p} den punkten.. Peder Klingrode | Leif Euren Stockholm, Sweden Holmrike, Nordmark, Drachenwald | leeu@celsiustech.se From nordmark-request Sat Apr 30 21:00:40 1994 Received: from hal.ludd.luth.se (bubba@hal.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.4]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA02126 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 1994 21:00:37 +0200 From: "U.J|rgen \hman" Received: (bubba@localhost) by hal.ludd.luth.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA00475 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se; Sat, 30 Apr 1994 20:59:13 +0200 Message-Id: <199404301859.UAA00475@hal.ludd.luth.se> Subject: Glad Valborg To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se (sca) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 1994 20:59:10 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 536 Status: RO Salve, Ulf h{r. Jag vill bara |nska er alla en glatt och trevligt valborgsfirande, men eftersom det kan finnas n}gon/n}gra bland er som inte firar, och eftersom jag brukar t{nka p} allt (eller?? :)) s} |nskar jag er som inte firar en glad och trevlig helg i alla fall. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Ulf Mj|dtunga * U,J|rgen \hman Frostheim * bubba@ludd.luth.se Barony of Nordmark * Kingdom of Drachenwald * - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -