From nordmark-request Sun Jan 1 00:20:29 1995 Return-Path: will@ludd.luth.se Received: from mother.ludd.luth.se (mother.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA23967 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 00:20:28 +0100 From: H}kan Sundqvist Received: (will@localhost) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id AAA12905 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se; Sun, 1 Jan 1995 00:20:27 +0100 Message-Id: <199412312320.AAA12905@mother.ludd.luth.se> Subject: Gott nytt }r To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 00:20:27 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 40 Status: RO Gott nytt }r |nskar Erik FitzWilliam From nordmark-request Mon Jan 2 09:19:32 1995 Return-Path: leeu@celsiustech.se Received: from world.celsiustech.se (world.celsiustech.se [139.58.1.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA27765 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 09:19:26 +0100 Received: (leeu@localhost) by world.celsiustech.se (8.6.9/8.6.4) id JAA08061 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se; Mon, 2 Jan 1995 09:19:21 +0100 From: Leif Euren Message-Id: <199501020819.JAA08061@world.celsiustech.se> Subject: Re: spridande av text To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se (Nordmark Mailing List (Prath|gen)) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 09:19:19 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2737 Status: RO William skrev: > Jo, allts}. Jag blev en aning putt |ver att min korrespondens > skickats vidare, UlfR skrev: > Bara en fr}ga; bad du BoD-medlemmen om tillst}nd att publicera > hans/hennes svar p} Prath|gen, eller f|rutsatte du att det var > "offentlig handling" och d{rmed ok att publicera? N{r det g{ller bandinspelningar s} {r konventionen att det {r OK att g|ra s}dana, och {ven offentligg|ra dem, om minst ena parten {r medveten om att inspelning g|rs. Detsamma torde g{lla korrespondens. Ska man f|rs{kra sig mot att informationen inte spriods vidare, m}ste man nog tillgripa n}gon form att kontrakt (f|rs{kran), som mottagaren skriver p} _innan_ man b|rjar skicka |ver information. S} g|r man med bl_a statshemligheter. Sen kan man ju f|rst}s (som William mycket riktigt p}pekar) h|vligt be om att informationen inte sprids utanf|r en viss krest. Den som d} {nd} g|r det, sv{rtar d} kanske ner den ursprungliga infomations- k{llan (kanske inte), men s{tter definitivt en st{mpel p} sig sj{lv som icke p}litlig. Och man m}ste t{nka sig f|r eftersom man inte vet var informationen hamnar i slut{ndan. Grundresonemanget b|r vara att det man skriver kan komma att spridas ut |ver hela v{rlden (och inte bara Den K{nda), och {ven d} m}ste man kunna st} f|r det. N{r man l{ser meddelanden och inl{gg p} n{tet ska man {gna en stund }t att f|rs|ka f|rest{lla sig varf|r skribenten skrivit det man just l{ser: {r det ett utdrag ur en privat brevv{xling; en appell egentligen riktad till ett helt annat forum, eller ett utkast ursprungligen |vers{nt enbart f|r kommentar? Johan Swarte skrev: > Peder {r en korkad nolla som sk{ller som en bindgalen hund. Det {r > skamligt att s}na personer f}r vara kvar i Nordmark. Prath|gen > skulle vara bra mycket trevligare om vi slapp alla infantila inl{gg > fr}n dom! Jag vill }terigen p}peka att man m}ste vara mycket kritisk n{r man f}r information via detta medium. Den _kan_ faktiskt vara f|rfalskad (som kommentaren h{r ovan - jag har skrivit den sj{lv :-) Det finns f} s{tt att se om information p} n{tet {r autentisk. Ett av dem {r mer eller mindre medveten text-analys: man tittar p} hur en text {r skriven f|r att avg|ra om den kan ha skrivits av angiven f|rfattare. D{rf|r {r ett av de riktigt l|mska s{tta att smutskasta en person att }terge hans eller hennes inl{gg med ytterst l{tta f|r{ndringar (t_ex genom att Russel-komparera adjektiven; det g|rs genom att f|rst{rka adjektivet p} ett grovt och f|rnedrande s{tt, exempelvis byta ut "en aning putt" i citatet fr}n William ovan mot "riktigt f|rbannad"). D{rf|r: Skriv mycket, men t{nk er f|r! God Forts{ttning p} det Nya Mundana ]ret (SCA:ititska ny}rsh{lsningar kommer n{r det {r s} dags) |nskar Peder Klingrode From nordmark-request Tue Jan 3 21:25:55 1995 Return-Path: bubba@ludd.luth.se Received: from eddie.ludd.luth.se (eddie.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.8]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA04996 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 21:25:54 +0100 From: "U.J|rgen \hman" Received: (bubba@localhost) by eddie.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA03030 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 21:24:02 +0100 Message-Id: <199501032024.VAA03030@eddie.ludd.luth.se> Subject: TV2's nyheter....*suck* To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se (sca) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 21:24:00 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1634 Status: RO Salve allihopsens.... Jag undrar om ni s}g Rapport ig}r, 2/1, d{r ett inslag handlade om polisens teorier ang}ende det |kade v}ldet och dess koppling till rollspel. Jag s}g det inte sj{lv men min sambo s}g det och trodde att jag blivit lite arg om jag sett det. De kom fram till att rollspel inte var bra men att det fanns n}got v{rre....Live Role Playing det var minsann alldeles ohyggligt farligt.... I och med att det pratades om lajvande s} visades en h|g med Frostheimare i aktion (min sambo {r inte s} aktiv i det historiska, men hon k{nner igen de flesta av "k{rn-frostheimarna"). Det som visades var d} en typisk SCA-fight mellan Erik FitzWilliam och n}gon hon inte k{nde igen (Lord Eriks l}nga fj{llpansar k{nner hon, liksom de allra flesta andra, igen). Herr Styrbj|rn fladdrade f|rbi i bakgrunden och Herr Johan skymtade i bakgrunden vid avslutningens hit-och-dit-zoomning. Jag ser ju inte oss som lajvare....med oss avser jag Frostheim och f|r |vrigt hela Nordmark och Dr|mmen. Lajvare }terskapar inte de nyskapar... med vampyrt{nder, alv|ron, boffersv{rd och gummimasker....eller??? Rapport har email-adressen: rapport@svt.se (om jag inte minns fel) Skriv och r{tta dem... / Ulf, lite uppr|rd.... - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Ulf Mj|dtunga(Mjoedtunga, Meadtongue) *Canton of Frostheim *(where frogs live NOT) Vert, in pale a crescent inverted *Barony of Nordmark and a Thor's hammer argent. *Kingdom of Drachenwald bubba@ludd.luth.se -=- U.J|rgen \hman -=- U.Joergen Oehman(NHL-Spelling) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From nordmark-request Tue Jan 3 22:29:09 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA05313; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 22:29:07 +0100 Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA18978; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 22:29:06 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA22097; Tue, 3 Jan 1995 22:29:05 +0100 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 22:29:05 +0100 Message-Id: <199501032129.WAA22097@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: bubba@ludd.luth.se CC: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: <199501032024.VAA03030@eddie.ludd.luth.se> (bubba@ludd.luth.se) Subject: Re: TV2's nyheter....*suck* From: Status: RO Hall}! Jag s}g inte Rapport men h|rde Dagens Eko i radion som hade en liknande grej om rollspel. D{r skiljde man inte p} lajv och vanliga rollspel. Man p}stod bl.a. att "de dominerande rollspelen p} marknaden {r mycket v}ldsamma och uppmuntrar brutalitet" (ungef{rligt citat) och klagade |ver att spelen inneh}ller kompletta anvisningar om hur man g|r "d|dliga f{llor", osv. En psykprofessor talade om att man kan bli psykotisk av alltf|r intensiva rollspel... William From nordmark-request Wed Jan 4 11:02:52 1995 Return-Path: will@ludd.luth.se Received: from mother.ludd.luth.se (mother.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA07942 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 11:02:51 +0100 From: H}kan Sundqvist Received: (will@localhost) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id LAA25113 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 11:02:50 +0100 Message-Id: <199501041002.LAA25113@mother.ludd.luth.se> Subject: TV2's nyheter och Nordnytt To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 11:02:49 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 700 Status: RO Jag {r sur ! Jag r}kade komma in och se slutet p} Rapports inslag om rollspel och fick till min f|rv}ning se mig sj}lv i bakgrunden till ett inslag om rollspelandet f|rd{rv. Tydligen har inslaget ursprungligen visats i Nordnytt s} det {r v{l dom som {r ansvariga f|r produktionen av inslaget. Men man kan ju allvarligt ifr}gas{tta b}de Rapports och Nordnytts }tergivning av verkligheten. Det {r v{l {nd} meningen att de skall vara opartiska nyhetsprogram utan vinstintresse. [r det n}gon som vet p} vilka grunder man kan anm{la ett inslag till Radion{mnden. Inslaget som de anv{nde var inspelat i ett helt annat sammanhang, vid medeltidsdag anordnad i samarbete med l{nsmuseet. Erik FitzWilliam From nordmark-request Wed Jan 4 11:48:56 1995 Return-Path: leeu@celsiustech.se Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA08024 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 11:48:55 +0100 Received: from world.celsiustech.se (world.celsiustech.se [139.58.1.3]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA19998 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 11:48:54 +0100 Received: (leeu@localhost) by world.celsiustech.se (8.6.9/8.6.4) id LAA13493 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 11:48:47 +0100 From: Leif Euren Message-Id: <199501041048.LAA13493@world.celsiustech.se> Subject: Re: TV2's nyheter To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se (Nordmark Mailing List (Prath|gen)) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 11:48:45 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1118 Status: RO Ulf Mj|dtunga skrev: > ... Rapport ig}r, 2/1, d{r ett inslag handlade om polisens teorier > ang}ende det |kade v}ldet och dess koppling till rollspel. > ... visades en h|g med Frostheimare i aktion. Det som visades var > d} en typisk SCA-fight... Jag ser ju inte oss som lajvare... > Rapport har email-adressen:... Skriv och r{tta dem... Det l}ter som om du vill att vi ska tala om f|r TV2 att det de visade inte alls var ett exempel p} det ofarliga lajvandet, utan ett p} den fruktansv{rda SCA-fightingen. Eller {r du irriterad |ver att lajvarna }ker sn}lskjuts p} SCA's goda rykte? Elle f|r att vissa personer i SCA/Frostheim genom inslaget utpekas som lajvare? Ta det lite f|rsiktigt h{r. Inslaget var riktat mot Live Roleplaying. Sorgligt i-och-f|r-sig, men inte p} n}got s{tt skadligt f|r SCA. Det finns knappast n}gon risk att SCA kopplas ihop med lajv genom inslaget Visserligen finns det flera i SCA/Nordmark som {gnar sig }t lajv, men det g|r inte SCA till en lajv-f|rening. Vi ska v{l inte hindra folk fr}n att vara med bara f|r att de har lite annorlunda }sikter om vad som {r roligt? /Peder From nordmark-request Wed Jan 4 12:11:33 1995 Return-Path: annika@sics.se Received: from sics.se (sics.se [192.16.123.90]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA08089 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 12:11:33 +0100 Received: from edjo.sics.se by sics.se (5.65+bind 1.7+ida 1.4.2/SICS-1.4) with SMTP id AA07959; Wed, 4 Jan 95 12:11:31 +0100 Message-Id: <9501041111.AA07959@sics.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se (Nordmark Mailing List (Prath|gen)) Cc: annika@sics.se Subject: Re: TV2's nyheter In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 04 Jan 1995 11:48:45 +0100." <199501041048.LAA13493@world.celsiustech.se> Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 12:11:30 +0100 From: Annika Waern Status: RO Herr Peder skrev (ang. Rapports inslag): >Ta det lite f|rsiktigt h{r. Inslaget var riktat mot Live Roleplaying. >Sorgligt i-och-f|r-sig, men inte p} n}got s{tt skadligt f|r SCA. Det >finns knappast n}gon risk att SCA kopplas ihop med lajv genom inslaget Den som lider skada av ett s}nt h{r inl{gg {r inte SCA - de som ser ett s}nt h{r inslag och som kan se att det {r fr}n SCA vet tillr{ckligt om verksamheten f|r att skilja den fr}n levande rollspel. Men det {r v{ldigt obehagligt f|r de enskilda personer som figurerar i inslaget att deras verksamhet vantolkas. T{nk dig sj{lv, om du var med och gjorde ett inslag om t.ex. ditt arbete p} ett nytt civilt trafikledningssystem, och ett halv}r senare anv{nds din intervju i ett inslag som handlar om nya vapens extrema f|rst|relseeffekter... Jag {r inte s{ker p} att Nordnytt (som producerat inslaget) f}r ta vilka arkivbilder som helst d{r "vanliga m{nniskor" f|rekommer, och anv{nda dem i ett helt annat (och mycket negativt formulerat) inslag. Jag pratade med en person som {r mer bevandrad i pressetik, och han tyckte att man }tmistonde borde ringa PO och h|ra vad som g{ller, och om det {r ide att g|ra en anm{lan. D{remot ska man nog inte h{nga upp sig f|r mycket p} att inslaget handlade om levande rollspel och inte om SCA - f|r en person som inte sj{lv {gnar sig }t n}gondera {r skillnaden antagligen inte tillr{ckligt stor f|r att man ska bry sig om att skilja p} dem. Katrina / Annika From nordmark-request Wed Jan 4 12:57:18 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA08198; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 12:57:17 +0100 Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA20099; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 12:57:15 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA23536; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 12:57:13 +0100 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 12:57:13 +0100 Message-Id: <199501041157.MAA23536@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: will@ludd.luth.se CC: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: <199501041002.LAA25113@mother.ludd.luth.se> (message from H}kan Sundqvist on Wed, 4 Jan 1995 11:02:49 +0100 (MET)) Subject: Re: TV2's nyheter och Nordnytt From: Status: RO Numera heter Radion{mnden inte Radion{mnden l{ngre utan "Granskningsn{mnden f|r Radio och TV". Adressen {r Svartmangatan 9 111 29 Stockholm. Emellertid {r denna n{mnds verksamhet knappast av n}got st|rre v{rde. Jag har anm{lt tre TV-program dit, i samtliga fall var det enligt min mening solklara |vertramp, men alla inslagen friades. Formellt sett ska n{mnden |vervaka att medierna f|ljer lagen och avtalet mellan staten och STV (som {ven g{ller TV4 tror jag). Man b|r nog skaffa sig b}de lagtexten och avtalstexten innan man g|r en anm{lan, s} att man exakt kan peka ut den punkt som inslaget brutit mot. William From nordmark-request Wed Jan 4 18:25:49 1995 Return-Path: bubba@ludd.luth.se Received: from eddie.ludd.luth.se (eddie.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.8]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA09408 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 18:25:48 +0100 From: "U.J|rgen \hman" Received: (bubba@localhost) by eddie.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA03905 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se; Wed, 4 Jan 1995 18:23:57 +0100 Message-Id: <199501041723.SAA03905@eddie.ludd.luth.se> Subject: TV2's nyheter ber om urs{kt.... To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se (sca) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 18:23:56 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1378 Status: RO Salve.... Inslagen visades tydligen i Nordnytt och i sena Rapport. Idag ringde jag och pratade med n}gon ansvarig p} Nordnytts Ume}-redaktion, en man vid namn Ola Nilsson. Jag f|rklarade att det k{ndes kymigt och olustigt att bli utpekad i ett sammanhang man inte har ett smack att g|ra med. Hur som helst s} pratade vi ett tag och jag han verkade nicka och humma. Han fick i alla fall mitt telefonnummer hem.....och innan jag hunnit hem hade en tjej som hette Ulrika ringt 2 ggr och fr}gat efter mig. Hon pratade med Beatrice (min sambo) och bad s} HEMSKT, FRUKTANSV{RT, KOLLOSSALT mycket om urs{kt. Hon hade tydligen valt ut bilderna med motiveringen att de medverkande kunnat passera f|r lajvare, UTKL[DDA(aargh) och allt...*suck* Hon bad i alla fall s} hemskt mycket om urs{kt s} Nordnytt ska jag l{mna d{rh{n....Jag har dock inte f}tt n}got svar p} mitt brev till Rapport {nnu... Det om detta.....jag h}ller er underr{ttade om forts{ttningen... / Ulf - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Ulf Mj|dtunga(Mjoedtunga, Meadtongue) *Canton of Frostheim *(where frogs live NOT) Vert, in pale a crescent inverted *Barony of Nordmark and a Thor's hammer argent. *Kingdom of Drachenwald bubba@ludd.luth.se -=- U.J|rgen \hman -=- U.Joergen Oehman(NHL-Spelling) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From nordmark-request Thu Jan 5 19:07:56 1995 Return-Path: parlei@ki.se Received: from ki.se (ki.se [130.237.207.77]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA14913 for ; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 19:07:52 +0100 Received: by ki.se id AA19121 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for Prath|gen ); Thu, 5 Jan 1995 19:09:49 +0100 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 19:09:48 +0200 (METDST) From: Par Leijonhufvud labtek Subject: Tidningar, rollspel och SCA To: Prath|gen Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Status: RO Om ni inte har l{st dagens (torsdagens) Svenska Dagbladets ledarsida b|r=20 ni kanske r}na n{rmaste bibliotek n{r helgen {r |ver. D{r finns en=20 _mycket_ bra refutation av lajv =3D> massmord hypoteserna. Han citerar vad= =20 som i f|rstone anges vara bloddrypande rollspelsinstruktioer, men visar=20 sig vara fr}n Odyss`en.=20 Sedan kan man ju iofs ifr}gas{tta att dom anv{nder den underbara=20 "fightingbilden" som dom hade p} f|rstasidan f|r n}gra m}nader sedan som=20 illustration. /UlfR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Paer K.G. Leijonhufvud Oh, *practice*. I don=B4t mind=20 Email: Par.Leijonhufvud@labtek.ki.se *practising*. So long as we Voice: +46-(0)8-758 8459 don=B4t have to do it for real... From nordmark-request Sun Jan 8 19:58:25 1995 Return-Path: <@nomina.lu.se:ralph@astro.lu.se> Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA11183 for ; Sun, 8 Jan 1995 19:58:24 +0100 Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA00683 for ; Sun, 8 Jan 1995 19:58:23 +0100 Received: from nastol.astro.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP (5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA25496; Sun, 8 Jan 95 20:00:57 +0100 Received: by nastol.astro.lu.se(1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA13193; Sun, 8 Jan 1995 19:58:20 +0100 From: Ralph Snel Message-Id: <9501081858.AA13193@nastol.astro.lu.se> Subject: |ltunnor To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Sun, 8 Jan 95 19:58:19 MET Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Hej, Jag har n}gra |ltunnor av ek till salu: Tv} 10 liter, en 30 liter. Om n}n {r interesserad, h|r av dig. Tunnorna {r lackerade och har stativ, och |lhane i tr{. Ralph/Clovis ralph@astro.lu.se From nordmark-request Mon Jan 9 10:19:00 1995 Return-Path: frithiof@akka.kemi.uu.se Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA13575 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 1995 10:18:59 +0100 Received: from akka.kemi.uu.se (akka.kemi.uu.se [130.238.66.10]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA01811 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 1995 10:18:57 +0100 Received: by akka.kemi.uu.se id AA00298 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Mon, 9 Jan 1995 10:16:33 +0100 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 10:16:33 +0100 From: Sven Noren Message-Id: <199501090916.AA00298@akka.kemi.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: Bredsida Status: RO >From flieg@garnet.berkeley.edu Fri Jan 6 01:41:20 1995 Received: from MIT.EDU (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU) by akka.kemi.uu.se with SMTP id AA06373 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 6 Jan 1995 01:41:18 +0100 Received: from nak.Berkeley.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA21101; Thu, 5 Jan 95 19:33:45 EST Received: from [128.32.144.118] by nak.berkeley.edu (8.6.8.1/1.40) id QAA25912; Thu, 5 Jan 1995 16:33:42 -0800 X-Nupop-Charset: English Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 13:48:21 -0800 (PST) From: "Flieg Hollander" Sender: flieg@garnet.berkeley.edu Reply-To: flieg@garnet.berkeley.edu Message-Id: <49702.flieg@garnet.berkeley.edu> To: Subject: Broadside of A Board Status: RO This is the Twelfth Night Edition of Broadside of a Board It has already been posted to sca-west, sca-east, sca-caid, antir, e5 and the Rialto. Cross posting to other areas is fine. -----------------------Begin Broadside------------------- Broadside of A Board (Vol.II No.1) Twelfth Night, XXIX (1994) Board Meeting is Here Again! Once again, the Board of Directors is holding its quarterly meeting right here in the West Kingdom! It will be the week after Twelfth Night, Saturday, January 14. Board meetings are open to the public of the SCA. A year ago, I invited the people of the West Kingdom to a Demonstration at the meeting of the Board of Directors. At that time I was protesting the continuing tendency of the Board to require membership in the SCA Inc. for participation in the SCA, specifically the requirement that fighters be members. Much has happened in the year just past. Still more has NOT happened. While the explicit issue of "pay-to-fight", per se, has been removed by the Board, there has been no restoration of the text of the Articles of Incorporation which forbade such requirements. In addition, the Board has reimposed "pay-to-play" in the form of the non-member surcharge and has stalled and waffled on other changes. (See editorials, below.) The surcharge and numerous other items are on the agenda for this meeting. I am not calling for a demonstration this year. For one thing, I hate to repeat myself. For another thing, there are some faint signs of hope on the horizon. I do call on all of you who care about our Kingdom and the SCA to come to the meeting and show the Board that you do care. If you have specific concerns of your own, bring signs or whatever you want. Information on the January 14 Board Meeting The hall will open at 8:30. The Board Meeting is usually scheduled to start around 9:00. There is no site fee. There will be refreshments available for a small fee during the day and there is a feast planned for the evening, during which it will be possible to meet and talk to the Board Members in their SCA identities. The cost of the Feast is $8/person (children 5-12 - $5, children under 5 - free). Tickets for the feast are available from the autocrat (see below) or at Twelfth Night. The following information is copied from The Page. Both the meeting and the feast following will be held at the fellowship hall of the Mountain View First Presbyterian Church, 1667 Miramonte, Mountain View. (Corner of Miramonte and Cuesta) Directions: Take your best route to Shoreline in Mountain View; go south (towards the hills) on Shoreline until it becomes Miramonte; then go approximately three quarters of a mile. The church is on the left. The autocrat is Master Hal Ravn (Wilson Heydt) (510-524-8321). Fast Eddie Elected to the Board! The Board of Directors selected a seventh member in a conference call on November 20, bringing it up to full strength for the first time in many years. That member is E.F. Morrill, known in several Kingdoms as Viscount Sir Edward Zifran of Gendy, aka "Fast Eddie". Edward started in An Tir when that Kingdom was still a part of the West, and was a Prince of that Principality. He has been active in the SCA the whole time and has been a critic of the Board, as well as a several-times Board candidate. For the last several years he has been the Land Autocrat/Tyrant for Pennsic War. While not a firebrand in the reform movement, his consistent attitude in the past has been that the Board should stay out of Kingdom affairs and should control as little as possible. His appointment is seen in many quarters as a continuing move in the direction of modification of attitudes of the membership of the Board. Writ of Mandate Final Report (SCA) The following information has been officially released by the Board of Directors as to the costs to the SCA, Inc. of the fight against the Writ of Mandate to reveal the books to the membership. The Board paid to James Seeley and Richard Johns, Attorneys for the SCA: $20,858.71. (This was not their total billing, just the billing assigned to work on the mandamus action.) The Board has also paid the judgement against the SCA: $19,220.88. The total is $40,079.59. Writ of Mandate Final Report (Petitioners) The following information has been given to me by the Petitioners for the Writ of Mandate as to the status of costs and fund raising for the writ. "We raised $6441.72 in contributions. The breakdown by kingdom, for those contributions which could be identified by kingdom, was: EAST - 2318.38, WEST - 1629.75, ANSTEORRA - 535.00, CAID - 250.00, AN TIR - 220.00, OUTLANDS - 200.00, ATLANTIA - 177.00, DRACHENWALD - 150.00, ATENVELDT - 75.00, MIDDLE - 50.00, CALONTIR - 50.00, MERIDIES - 25.00. An additional $358.50 was raised by donations and a raffle at Pennsic and $403.09 in anonymous contributions at other events." (I note that only the West Kingdom and the Pennsic contributions have changed from mid- July. Baron Hossein tells me that contributions essentially dried up once people knew that the SCA was going to comply.) "The petitioners spent $15,054.05 in excess of the attorney's fees and costs paid under the judgment by the corporation. These expenses included over $2300 in additional attorney's fees and costs to collect the judgment (these expenses were not included in the original judgment and, in order to promote an atmosphere of greater cooperation with the corporation, we have chosen not to seek reimbursement for them from the SCA, Inc.)." The additional expenses also included the costs of informational mailings, telephone calls to attorneys, their accountant, Board members, corporate officers, royalty and seneschals, and photocopying of three sets of more than 5,000 pages of documents obtained from the corporate office, etc. A detailed accounting of these expenses will be mailed shortly to all contributors who requested it with an SASE. Broadside of a Board will also be receiving this mailing. The mandamus petitioners will be reimbursed 43% of each petitioner's outlay, except for Monica Cellio, who incurred expenses in the sum of $500.00 but who asked not to be reimbursed. Status of the Analysis of the Books of Account According to a letter from Hossein Ali Qomi (Greg Rose) "Only a few outstanding formalities remain, including certification by our examining accountant of what documents which one might reasonably expect a corporation to keep were missing from the materials handed over to the petitioners. We believe that this certification will show sloppy bookkeeping procedures rather than willful obstruction of the court's order. We thank the Board for its compliance with the court's instructions." Where to Write WK Ombudsman: Ed Kreyling, 202 South Park Drive, Jackson, MS, 39211 (601)-957-0397. SCA Corporate Office: SCA, Inc. , P.O. Box 360789, Milpitas, CA, 95036-0789 (408)-263-9305; Fax:(408)-263-0641 Mandamus Accounting: J. Terry Nutter (Lady Angharad ver' Rhuawn), 2511 Manchester St., Blacksburg, VA 24060. Correction of Impression The following sentence appeared in the Samhain edition of Broadside of a Board. "Send your resume to the Ombudsman to the Committee, Ed Kreyling, ... (He is also the West Kingdom Ombudsthing.)" I was asked by one person if I didn't like Ed, pointing to the use of "Ombudsthing". This is NOT the case. Ed appears to be a reasonable person and sincerely interested in acting to represent and interact with the West Kingdom. The use of "ombudsthing" was an attempt at humor about "PC-speak", and reflected its use at the Board Meeting. Editorials The Surcharge Must Go! The following is the text of a letter I have sent to the Board of Directors. Note that this topic is up for discussion at the January meeting. My Lords and Ladies: I write to you at this time to urge you to revoke and remove the "non-member surcharge" which was put into effect last April. It is my understanding that this policy is up for review at your January meeting. I further urge you to restore the wording in the Articles of Incorporation regarding membership requirements to its pre-January, 1994 wording, which forbids the requirement of membership for anything other than officers, Royalty and entrants in Royal Lists. (I would like to see all membership requirements removed, but would settle for that.) I feel that there are several reasons why the surcharge should be repealed. 1) It was put into effect as a temporary measure to balance the budget. It has failed to do so. If it is continued at the January meeting it will be widely seen as an indication that the Board does not intend to revoke it at all, but to continue it as a permanent policy. Given the perception of many of the populace that the Board cannot manage its finances, this will greatly increase the resentment of the populace to this policy. 2) It was put in under false pretenses, and for the wrong reasons. It was put in on the pretense that there was a financial emergency which needed an immediate and radical solution, and it was put in its current form because it was apparently perceived that "non-members" were the cause of this emergency. In fact, at the time of the institution of the surcharge there was no financial emergency other than a budget plan to spend more than the then current income of the SCA, Inc. No justification was ever given for the assumption that it should be "non-members" that should pay for the deficit. Subsequent events have clearly shown that the Board, not the general membership (and certainly not that portion of it defined by Corpora as "non-members"), was responsible for both the projected and the actual difference between income and expenses. 3) It has been ineffective. The surcharge was supposedly intended to raise over $100,000 to balance the 1994 budget. Even once it had been put into place it raised only $15,000 between 1 June and 1 October, and that included a large amount from Pennsic. Lacking any real way to tell if the surcharge is being collected and reported correctly, there is no way to make it effective. 4) It is not needed. I have seen the analysis by Dr. Greg Rose on the matter of income and expenses over the last year, and have looked at the raw numbers as well, those which have been published to the SCA generally. It is clear to me that the SCA, Inc. can rapidly get back on its feet if only a conservative budget on spending is written and adhered to, and it can do this on the dues of the members alone. 5) It is widely resented. There are at least four Kingdoms, the East, West, AnTir and Drachenwald, where I hear of substantial resistance to the policy, and I know of localized resistance elsewhere. When the Seneschale of the East states publicly in the Kingdom newsletter that the time has come to follow the rules, but then goes on to suggest ways to bypass the rule, there is a problem with public relations on this policy. A significant number of events in the West have gone to "donation suggested" rather than pay the surcharge, and the collection of the surcharge at West Kingdom events is due only to the fact that the King has ordered it (and even then some people complain). This resistance exists despite the fact that the surcharge in the West is collected as $1 on each person. (The resistance would have been a lot higher if the Board had insisted on collecting it "as advertised.") People will not continue to support a rule that they do not like. The current policy invites people to defy the Board, especially when the Board has shown no public tendency to clean up its financial act. 6) It is inhibiting to recruitment. Even if the rule were rigorously and enthusiastically supported, it would still be a bad idea, as it goes against the historical openness of the SCA, especially its welcome to newcomers. The surcharge is especially a problem at small local events which are the primary recruitment points for the SCA. If the site fee is only $2 for members and is $5 for non-members, then there is a strong disincentive for new people to attend and to try us out. 7) It is the underhanded continuance of a policy which has been disavowed by the Board. It is, in essence, "pay to play" continued at the lowest level and with no justification. Other Things That the Board Can Do NOW! -- Waiver -- The Waiver committee will be reporting at this meeting. If they have a new text, the Board can approve it, or disapprove it. Keep an eye out for the text of any new waiver. The text that is approved will say a lot about the current direction of the Board of Directors. Any waiver that talks about personal responsibility rather than indemnification should be regarded as a plus. -- Spread the Power/Work -- Separate the Officers of the Corporation from the Board of Directors. This does not need to wait; it is not a new idea and it is internal to the Corporation. It would also provide more people with "insider" access. -- End the Secrecy -- Allow the membership to attend ALL meetings of the Board, not just the show meetings. Better yet, allow anyone who does attend to contribute ideas to the discussions! Publish a list of action items for the next meeting as soon after the current meeting as possible, so that people have a chance to comment. -- Commit to Reform -- The Board can publicly commit to a statement that the Board does not rule the SCA, but rather serves the local groups and the people. They can commit to a statement that the Board should be accountable to the membership. Broadside of a Board is an occasional publication written and edited by Frederick of Holland (3334 California Street, Berkeley, CA, 94703. Phone (510)-653-3652. email: flieg@garnet.- berkeley.edu). Reproduction of all or parts of Broadside of a Board is encouraged. Please don't alter any article, and please do credit the source. Contributions from other authors are solicited and will be printed on a space-available basis. Next issue is scheduled for Cynagua Investiture and/or Estrella War. ----------------End Broadside--------------- * * * Frederick of Holland, MSCA, OP, etc. *** *** *** flieg@garnet.berkeley.edu _|___|___|_ |===========| (((Flieg Hollander, Chem. Dept., U.C. Berkeley))) ================== Old Used Duke ================= [All subjects of the Crown are equal under its protection and no Corporation is going to convince me otherwise.] From nordmark-request Mon Jan 9 10:33:03 1995 Return-Path: bubba@ludd.luth.se Received: from box.ludd.luth.se (box.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.26]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA13623 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 1995 10:33:03 +0100 From: "U.J|rgen \hman" Received: (bubba@localhost) by box.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA02941 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se; Mon, 9 Jan 1995 10:32:44 +0100 Message-Id: <199501090932.KAA02941@box.ludd.luth.se> Subject: hur blev det med..... To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se (sca) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 10:32:43 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 719 Status: RO Salve allihopsens..... Jag har en fr}ga! En enda fr}ga som {r v{ldigt enkel, men v{ldigt viktig. Svaret p} fr}gan kan, m{rk v{l KAN, f} f|r|dande konsekvenser inf|r framtiden. Fr}gan {r...... HUR GICK DET MED V]R [LV???? N]!!!!! fr}n Ulf, nyfiken p} vem som hamnar p} frostheims bl}a lista... :) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Ulf Mj|dtunga(Mjoedtunga, Meadtongue) *Canton of Frostheim *(where frogs live NOT) Vert, in pale a crescent inverted *Barony of Nordmark and a Thor's hammer argent. *Kingdom of Drachenwald bubba@ludd.luth.se -=- U.J|rgen \hman -=- U.Joergen Oehman(NHL-Spelling) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From nordmark-request Mon Jan 9 10:44:36 1995 Return-Path: bubba@ludd.luth.se Received: from box.ludd.luth.se (box.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.26]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA13598 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 1995 10:28:28 +0100 From: "U.J|rgen \hman" Received: (bubba@localhost) by box.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA02930 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se; Mon, 9 Jan 1995 10:28:09 +0100 Message-Id: <199501090928.KAA02930@box.ludd.luth.se> Subject: Kroningen??? To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se (sca) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 10:28:08 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 671 Status: RO Salve allihopsens... Hur gick kr|ningen?? Blev r{tt Kung och Drottning kr|nta?? N}gra skandaler?? Mordf|rs|k?? F|rgiftade matr{tter?? Vem intrigerade mot vem?? Och vem sprang naken med badbollen under armen?? :) H{lsningar / Ulf, skvallersugen... :) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Ulf Mj|dtunga(Mjoedtunga, Meadtongue) *Canton of Frostheim *(where frogs live NOT) Vert, in pale a crescent inverted *Barony of Nordmark and a Thor's hammer argent. *Kingdom of Drachenwald bubba@ludd.luth.se -=- U.J|rgen \hman -=- U.Joergen Oehman(NHL-Spelling) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From nordmark-request Mon Jan 9 10:42:29 1995 Return-Path: <@nomina.lu.se:kansli.lth-j.spanne@macpost.lu.se> Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA13696 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 1995 10:42:28 +0100 Received: from macpost.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP(5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA06263; Mon, 9 Jan 95 10:31:28 +0100 Subject: Broadside of A Board (fwd) To: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se Date: Mon, 9 Jan 95 10:31:31 +0100 Message-Id: <950109.103131.71529@macpost.lu.se> Status: RO >Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 13:48:21 -0800 (PST) >From: "Flieg Hollander" >Reply-To: flieg@garnet.berkeley.edu >Subject: Broadside of A Board > >This is the Twelfth Night Edition of Broadside of a Board >It has already been posted to sca-west, sca-east, sca-caid, antir, e5 and >the Rialto. Cross posting to other areas is fine. >-----------------------Begin Broadside------------------- >Broadside of A Board >(Vol.II No.1) Twelfth Night, XXIX (1994) > >Board Meeting is Here Again! > Once again, the Board of Directors is holding its >quarterly meeting right here in the West Kingdom! It will be the >week after Twelfth Night, Saturday, January 14. Board meetings >are open to the public of the SCA. > A year ago, I invited the people of the West Kingdom >to a Demonstration at the meeting of the Board of Directors. At >that time I was protesting the continuing tendency of the Board >to require membership in the SCA Inc. for participation in the >SCA, specifically the requirement that fighters be members. >Much has happened in the year just past. Still more has NOT >happened. While the explicit issue of "pay-to-fight", per se, has >been removed by the Board, there has been no restoration of the >text of the Articles of Incorporation which forbade such >requirements. In addition, the Board has reimposed "pay-to-play" >in the form of the non-member surcharge and has stalled and >waffled on other changes. (See editorials, below.) The surcharge >and numerous other items are on the agenda for this meeting. > I am not calling for a demonstration this year. For one >thing, I hate to repeat myself. For another thing, there are some >faint signs of hope on the horizon. I do call on all of you who >care about our Kingdom and the SCA to come to the meeting >and show the Board that you do care. If you have specific >concerns of your own, bring signs or whatever you want. > >Information on the January 14 Board Meeting > The hall will open at 8:30. The Board Meeting is >usually scheduled to start around 9:00. There is no site fee. >There will be refreshments available for a small fee during the >day and there is a feast planned for the evening, during which it >will be possible to meet and talk to the Board Members in their >SCA identities. The cost of the Feast is $8/person (children 5-12 >- $5, children under 5 - free). Tickets for the feast are available >from the autocrat (see below) or at Twelfth Night. > The following information is copied from The Page. >Both the meeting and the feast following will be held at the >fellowship hall of the Mountain View First Presbyterian Church, >1667 Miramonte, Mountain View. (Corner of Miramonte and >Cuesta) Directions: Take your best route to Shoreline in >Mountain View; go south (towards the hills) on Shoreline until >it becomes Miramonte; then go approximately three quarters of >a mile. The church is on the left. > The autocrat is Master Hal Ravn (Wilson Heydt) >(510-524-8321). > >Fast Eddie Elected to the Board! > The Board of Directors selected a seventh member in >a conference call on November 20, bringing it up to full strength >for the first time in many years. That member is E.F. Morrill, >known in several Kingdoms as Viscount Sir Edward Zifran of >Gendy, aka "Fast Eddie". Edward started in An Tir when that >Kingdom was still a part of the West, and was a Prince of that >Principality. He has been active in the SCA the whole time and >has been a critic of the Board, as well as a several-times Board >candidate. For the last several years he has been the Land >Autocrat/Tyrant for Pennsic War. While not a firebrand in the >reform movement, his consistent attitude in the past has been >that the Board should stay out of Kingdom affairs and should >control as little as possible. His appointment is seen in many >quarters as a continuing move in the direction of modification of >attitudes of the membership of the Board. > >Writ of Mandate Final Report (SCA) > The following information has been officially released >by the Board of Directors as to the costs to the SCA, Inc. of the >fight against the Writ of Mandate to reveal the books to the >membership. The Board paid to James Seeley and Richard Johns, >Attorneys for the SCA: $20,858.71. (This was not their total >billing, just the billing assigned to work on the mandamus >action.) The Board has also paid the judgement against the SCA: >$19,220.88. The total is $40,079.59. > >Writ of Mandate Final Report (Petitioners) > The following information has been given to me by the >Petitioners for the Writ of Mandate as to the status of costs and >fund raising for the writ. "We raised $6441.72 in contributions. >The breakdown by kingdom, for those contributions which could >be identified by kingdom, was: EAST - 2318.38, WEST - 1629.75, >ANSTEORRA - 535.00, CAID - 250.00, AN TIR - 220.00, >OUTLANDS - 200.00, ATLANTIA - 177.00, DRACHENWALD >- 150.00, ATENVELDT - 75.00, MIDDLE - 50.00, CALONTIR - >50.00, MERIDIES - 25.00. An additional $358.50 was raised by >donations and a raffle at Pennsic and $403.09 in anonymous >contributions at other events." (I note that only the West >Kingdom and the Pennsic contributions have changed from mid- >July. Baron Hossein tells me that contributions essentially dried >up once people knew that the SCA was going to comply.) > "The petitioners spent $15,054.05 in excess of the >attorney's fees and costs paid under the judgment by the >corporation. These expenses included over $2300 in additional >attorney's fees and costs to collect the judgment (these expenses >were not included in the original judgment and, in order to >promote an atmosphere of greater cooperation with the >corporation, we have chosen not to seek reimbursement for them >from the SCA, Inc.)." > The additional expenses also included the costs of >informational mailings, telephone calls to attorneys, their >accountant, Board members, corporate officers, royalty and >seneschals, and photocopying of three sets of more than 5,000 >pages of documents obtained from the corporate office, etc. A >detailed accounting of these expenses will be mailed shortly to all >contributors who requested it with an SASE. Broadside of a >Board will also be receiving this mailing. > The mandamus petitioners will be reimbursed 43% of >each petitioner's outlay, except for Monica Cellio, who incurred >expenses in the sum of $500.00 but who asked not to be >reimbursed. > >Status of the Analysis of the Books of Account > According to a letter from Hossein Ali Qomi (Greg >Rose) "Only a few outstanding formalities remain, including >certification by our examining accountant of what documents >which one might reasonably expect a corporation to keep were >missing from the materials handed over to the petitioners. We >believe that this certification will show sloppy bookkeeping >procedures rather than willful obstruction of the court's order. >We thank the Board for its compliance with the court's >instructions." > >Where to Write >WK Ombudsman: Ed Kreyling, 202 South Park Drive, Jackson, >MS, 39211 (601)-957-0397. > >SCA Corporate Office: SCA, Inc. , P.O. Box 360789, Milpitas, >CA, 95036-0789 (408)-263-9305; Fax:(408)-263-0641 >Mandamus Accounting: J. Terry Nutter (Lady Angharad ver' >Rhuawn), 2511 Manchester St., Blacksburg, VA 24060. > >Correction of Impression > The following sentence appeared in the Samhain edition >of Broadside of a Board. "Send your resume to the Ombudsman >to the Committee, Ed Kreyling, ... (He is also the West Kingdom >Ombudsthing.)" I was asked by one person if I didn't like Ed, >pointing to the use of "Ombudsthing". This is NOT the case. Ed >appears to be a reasonable person and sincerely interested in >acting to represent and interact with the West Kingdom. The use >of "ombudsthing" was an attempt at humor about "PC-speak", and >reflected its use at the Board Meeting. > >Editorials >The Surcharge Must Go! > The following is the text of a letter I have sent to the >Board of Directors. Note that this topic is up for discussion at >the January meeting. > My Lords and Ladies: > I write to you at this time to urge you to revoke and >remove the "non-member surcharge" which was put into effect >last April. It is my understanding that this policy is up for review >at your January meeting. I further urge you to restore the >wording in the Articles of Incorporation regarding membership >requirements to its pre-January, 1994 wording, which forbids the >requirement of membership for anything other than officers, >Royalty and entrants in Royal Lists. (I would like to see all >membership requirements removed, but would settle for that.) > I feel that there are several reasons why the surcharge >should be repealed. > 1) It was put into effect as a temporary measure to >balance the budget. It has failed to do so. If it is continued at >the January meeting it will be widely seen as an indication that >the Board does not intend to revoke it at all, but to continue it >as a permanent policy. Given the perception of many of the >populace that the Board cannot manage its finances, this will >greatly increase the resentment of the populace to this policy. > 2) It was put in under false pretenses, and for the wrong >reasons. It was put in on the pretense that there was a financial >emergency which needed an immediate and radical solution, and >it was put in its current form because it was apparently perceived >that "non-members" were the cause of this emergency. In fact, at >the time of the institution of the surcharge there was no >financial emergency other than a budget plan to spend more than >the then current income of the SCA, Inc. No justification was >ever given for the assumption that it should be "non-members" >that should pay for the deficit. Subsequent events have clearly >shown that the Board, not the general membership (and certainly >not that portion of it defined by Corpora as "non-members"), was >responsible for both the projected and the actual difference >between income and expenses. > 3) It has been ineffective. The surcharge was supposedly >intended to raise over $100,000 to balance the 1994 budget. >Even once it had been put into place it raised only $15,000 >between 1 June and 1 October, and that included a large amount >from Pennsic. Lacking any real way to tell if the surcharge is >being collected and reported correctly, there is no way to make >it effective. > 4) It is not needed. I have seen the analysis by Dr. >Greg Rose on the matter of income and expenses over the last >year, and have looked at the raw numbers as well, those which >have been published to the SCA generally. It is clear to me that >the SCA, Inc. can rapidly get back on its feet if only a >conservative budget on spending is written and adhered to, and >it can do this on the dues of the members alone. > 5) It is widely resented. There are at least four >Kingdoms, the East, West, AnTir and Drachenwald, where I hear >of substantial resistance to the policy, and I know of localized >resistance elsewhere. When the Seneschale of the East states >publicly in the Kingdom newsletter that the time has come to >follow the rules, but then goes on to suggest ways to bypass the >rule, there is a problem with public relations on this policy. A >significant number of events in the West have gone to "donation >suggested" rather than pay the surcharge, and the collection of >the surcharge at West Kingdom events is due only to the fact that >the King has ordered it (and even then some people complain). >This resistance exists despite the fact that the surcharge in the >West is collected as $1 on each person. (The resistance would >have been a lot higher if the Board had insisted on collecting it >"as advertised.") People will not continue to support a rule that >they do not like. The current policy invites people to defy the >Board, especially when the Board has shown no public tendency >to clean up its financial act. > 6) It is inhibiting to recruitment. Even if the rule were >rigorously and enthusiastically supported, it would still be a bad >idea, as it goes against the historical openness of the SCA, >especially its welcome to newcomers. The surcharge is especially >a problem at small local events which are the primary >recruitment points for the SCA. If the site fee is only $2 for >members and is $5 for non-members, then there is a strong >disincentive for new people to attend and to try us out. > 7) It is the underhanded continuance of a policy which >has been disavowed by the Board. It is, in essence, "pay to play" >continued at the lowest level and with no justification. > >Other Things That the Board Can Do NOW! > -- Waiver -- The Waiver committee will be reporting at this >meeting. If they have a new text, the Board can approve it, or >disapprove it. Keep an eye out for the text of any new waiver. >The text that is approved will say a lot about the current >direction of the Board of Directors. Any waiver that talks about >personal responsibility rather than indemnification should be >regarded as a plus. > -- Spread the Power/Work -- Separate the Officers of the >Corporation from the Board of Directors. This does not need to >wait; it is not a new idea and it is internal to the Corporation. It >would also provide more people with "insider" access. > -- End the Secrecy -- Allow the membership to attend ALL >meetings of the Board, not just the show meetings. Better yet, >allow anyone who does attend to contribute ideas to the >discussions! Publish a list of action items for the next meeting as >soon after the current meeting as possible, so that people have >a chance to comment. > -- Commit to Reform -- The Board can publicly commit to a >statement that the Board does not rule the SCA, but rather >serves the local groups and the people. They can commit to a >statement that the Board should be accountable to the >membership. > >Broadside of a Board is an occasional publication written and >edited by Frederick of Holland (3334 California Street, Berkeley, >CA, 94703. Phone (510)-653-3652. email: flieg@garnet.- >berkeley.edu). Reproduction of all or parts of Broadside of a >Board is encouraged. Please don't alter any article, and please do >credit the source. Contributions from other authors are solicited >and will be printed on a space-available basis. Next issue is >scheduled for Cynagua Investiture and/or Estrella War. >----------------End Broadside--------------- > > * * * Frederick of Holland, MSCA, OP, etc. > *** *** *** flieg@garnet.berkeley.edu > _|___|___|_ > |===========| > (((Flieg Hollander, Chem. Dept., U.C. Berkeley))) > ================== Old Used Duke ================= > [All subjects of the Crown are equal under its protection > and no Corporation is going to convince me otherwise.] From nordmark-request Mon Jan 9 11:14:19 1995 Return-Path: <@nomina.lu.se:kansli.lth-j.spanne@macpost.lu.se> Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA13665 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 1995 10:38:54 +0100 Received: from macpost.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP (5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA07589; Mon, 9 Jan 95 10:41:28 +0100 Subject: GC Report to the Board (fwd) To: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se Date: Mon, 9 Jan 95 10:41:30 +0100 Message-Id: <950109.104130.71544@macpost.lu.se> Status: RO Den h{r rapporten har n}tt mig via n{tet. Notera vem som {r utsedd till Drachenwalds medlem i GC. /Catrin > -------------------------------------------------- > > TO: Board of Directors, SCA, Inc. > > FROM: Carol L. Smith (Lady Caroline Forbes of Oxfordshire) > Grand Council Coordinator > > DATE: 3 January 1995 > > RE: Grand Council Report for January 1995 Board Meeting > > > > This report covers the time period from 15 October 1994 to 14 January > 1995. I will not be at the January Board meeting, but one of the Grand > Council members will be in attendance to answer any questions you may > have. > > ACTIONS REQUIRED BY THE BOARD > > * Appoint and authorize one Board Member (Randall) to complete > discussions on the Grand Council Charter with me. This will minimize > the time to complete the process. > The revised draft of the charter is enclosed. > > * Confirm the appointment of 5 of the remaining 6 > Kingdom-appointed Grand Council members. The list is below. The East > has not told me of their appointment to the Grand Council. > > List of Kingdom Appointees to Be Confirmed > > Modern Name > SCA Name > Kingdom > > Galen Bevel > Sir Galen Kirchanbauer > Ansteorra > > Bart Orbons > Lord Bertirk van Triecht > Drachenwald > > Karen Penn > Countess Sarah > Atenveldt > > Nathan Clarenburg > Sir Nathan Adelaar > Calontir > > Loren Hart > Mistress Randall > An Tir > > Note: Some of these names were known at the October Board meeting > but none of these are listed in the Society Seneschal's report of that > meeting. > > > SUMMARY OF ACTIVITIES OF THE GRAND COUNCIL > > * The Charter has been amended, taking into account the comments > made by the Board. It is attached. The main changes include: > > * Explicit notice that paid membership to the SCA, Inc. is not > required for membership on the GC. Since a significant percentage of > Society participants are not members, requiring it for the Council > would defeat some of the purpose of the diversity of the Council. > > * The deadlines and other dates have been moved forward by one > quarter to reflect the delays this quarter. > > * The section on resource requirements has been removed. Although > these requirements still exist, I expect that they will be handled > separately. > > * Over 100 people have applied to be on the Grand Council. The > candidates have quite diverse experiences and opinions. The selection > committee has begun work on determining who else should be added to > the Council. We will forward names to the Board as we have them for > approval. > > * Mark Waks (Master Justin du Coeur) has formed most of his > communications committee. The first letter to Grand Council members > will be sent this month. > > > Please let me know if you have any questions. > > Carol L. Smith > 14713 Mill Spring Drive > Chesterfield, MO 63017-5654 > (314) 694-4655 (days) > (314) 530-1836 (evenings) > (314) 693-4655 (fax) > clsmit@ccmail.monsanto.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ From nordmark-request Mon Jan 9 17:23:55 1995 Return-Path: rcole@informix.com Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA17413 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 1995 17:23:54 +0100 Received: from gateway.informix.com (gateway.informix.com [192.216.240.3]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA02851 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 1995 17:23:40 +0100 Received: from informix.com (infmx.informix.com) by gateway.informix.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14124; Mon, 9 Jan 95 08:23:16 PST Received: from jupiter2.noname (jupiter2.informix.com) by informix.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06724; Mon, 9 Jan 95 08:23:14 PST Received: by jupiter2.noname (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04025; Mon, 9 Jan 95 10:24:36 CST Date: Mon, 9 Jan 95 10:24:36 CST From: rcole@informix.com (Rusty Cole) Message-Id: <9501091624.AA04025@jupiter2.noname> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: help please Cc: rcole@informix.com Status: RO My friends, I beg a moment of your time. Its January 9th, cold and frigid here in Calontir. So, like all good people, my mind turns to thoughts of WAR! I'm starting to make plans on going to the Double Wars in May and would really appreciate some help. I am working on a light set of armour to mail to Nordmark, does someone have the armour requirements for Drachenwald online? I would appreciate a copy of them, I want to make this set legal for both Drachenwald and Calontir. It would really stink to get all the way to Drachenwald and find out I couldn't fight. :( Also, does anyone have an address of the post office near the event? I want to mail my armor, and some weapons then I'll pick them up when I get there.... If anyone can help that would be great! Please e-mail me directly at: rcole@informix.com Thanks, Hrolf the Amberman, aka Rusty, aka Hey You! From nordmark-request Mon Jan 9 17:53:37 1995 Return-Path: <@nomina.lu.se:ralph@astro.lu.se> Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA17580 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 1995 17:53:36 +0100 Received: from nastol.astro.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP (5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA21555; Mon, 9 Jan 95 17:56:12 +0100 Received: by nastol.astro.lu.se(1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA10853; Mon, 9 Jan 1995 17:53:36 +0100 From: Ralph Snel Message-Id: <9501091653.AA10853@nastol.astro.lu.se> Subject: About the double wars To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Mon, 9 Jan 95 17:53:36 MET Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Hi Rusty (and all others who want to send stuff to the wars) I'm autocrat for the wars this year, and I live only a 10 minute drive away from the site, and the mailman is used to delivering large parcels to our place. Besides that, Torsheim will host the Drachenwald Arts and Sciences faire at the double wars this year, and any entries can be sent to me as well. Please note that I will _not_ pay for any postage or other extra costs. Armour standards: I have been out of it for a while, but at Pennsic a few years ago I heard of complaints about "the Swedes and their hermetically sealed armour." I guess nothing has changed significantly. If you can think of it, Drachenwald (and Nordmark in particular) will require protection there. Please note as well that the weather traditionally is nice and hot (at least by our standards, say 20 to 25 celsius), with high risk of rainshowers. Regards, Ralph/Chlodovick ralph@astro.lu.se From nordmark-request Mon Jan 9 18:18:12 1995 Return-Path: rcole@informix.com Received: from gateway.informix.com (gateway.informix.com [192.216.240.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA17725 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 1995 18:18:10 +0100 Received: from informix.com (infmx.informix.com) by gateway.informix.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15326; Mon, 9 Jan 95 09:17:26 PST Received: from jupiter2.noname (jupiter2.informix.com) by informix.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13634; Mon, 9 Jan 95 09:17:22 PST Received: by jupiter2.noname (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05771; Mon, 9 Jan 95 11:18:44 CST Date: Mon, 9 Jan 95 11:18:44 CST From: rcole@informix.com (Rusty Cole) Message-Id: <9501091718.AA05771@jupiter2.noname> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: Re: About the double wars Status: RO Hey Ralph, > > Hi Rusty (and all others who want to send stuff to the wars) > > I'm autocrat for the wars this year, and I live only a 10 minute > drive away from the site, and the mailman is used to delivering > large parcels to our place. Great! That would work out wonderfully. > > Armour standards: I have been out of it for a while, but at > Pennsic a few years ago I heard of complaints about "the Swedes > and their hermetically sealed armour." > I guess nothing has changed significantly. If you can think of > it, Drachenwald (and Nordmark in particular) will require protection > there. Hmmm, ok, do you require vambraces? We don't in Calontir.... > Please note as well that the weather traditionally is nice and hot > (at least by our standards, say 20 to 25 celsius), with high risk of > rainshowers. Yea, I remember Sweden in May, its a great time to be there. 20-25 Celsius, that's hot? Why in my days in Kansas I've fought in 30+ Celsius heat. Ok, ok, so I'm stupid too. :) :) :) :) thanks, Rusty From nordmark-request Tue Jan 10 08:35:23 1995 Return-Path: parlei@ki.se Received: from ki.se (ki.se [130.237.207.77]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA21587 for ; Tue, 10 Jan 1995 08:35:22 +0100 Received: by ki.se id AA02673 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for sca ); Tue, 10 Jan 1995 08:37:23 +0100 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 08:37:22 +0200 (METDST) From: Par Leijonhufvud labtek Subject: Re: Kroningen??? Cc: sca In-Reply-To: <199501090928.KAA02930@box.ludd.luth.se> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Status: RO On Mon, 9 Jan 1995, U.J|rgen hman wrote: > Salve allihopsens... >=20 > Hur gick kr|ningen?? Blev r{tt Kung och Drottning kr|nta?? > N}gra skandaler?? Mordf|rs|k?? F|rgiftade matr{tter?? > Vem intrigerade mot vem?? Och vem sprang naken med badbollen > under armen?? :) Kr|ningen gick huvudsakligen enligt planerna, {ven om en del inte var=20 helt f|rtjusta i att banketten bestod i ett (levande) lamm och en famn=20 ved per 10 deltagare. Vissa klagade ocks} p} att vi kr|nte Drachenwalds=20 f|rsta Tuchuchx-drottning, {ven om jag tycker att han s}g helt ok ut i=20 ringbrynje-bikini. N}gra blev r{tt s} illa trampade n{r n}gra av tjurarna= =20 kom l|sa under natten, men f{ltsk{rerna hade nog haft tr}kigt annars.=20 Och parkettgolvet blir nog inte riktigt snyggt igen efter tourneringen. >=20 > H{lsningar / Ulf, skvallersugen... :) Veten I nu, eller ej? /UlfR P.S: Jag h|ll p} att gl|mma att Brandon blev mycket stolt |ver att bli=20 utsedd till Baronesan av Arnim{tses m{tress. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Paer K.G. Leijonhufvud Oh, *practice*. I don=B4t mind=20 Email: Par.Leijonhufvud@labtek.ki.se *practising*. So long as we Voice: +46-(0)8-758 8459 don=B4t have to do it for real... From nordmark-request Tue Jan 10 09:31:20 1995 Return-Path: frithiof@akka.kemi.uu.se Received: from akka.kemi.uu.se (akka.kemi.uu.se [130.238.66.10]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA21815 for ; Tue, 10 Jan 1995 09:31:19 +0100 Received: by akka.kemi.uu.se id AA03323 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for Nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Tue, 10 Jan 1995 09:28:53 +0100 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 09:28:53 +0100 From: Sven Noren Message-Id: <199501100828.AA03323@akka.kemi.uu.se> To: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se Status: RO R|stsedlar f|r omr|stningen om Nordmarks eventuella furstend|me- status har i dagarna skickats ut till medlemmarna. R|stsedeln ger tv} alternativ varav man ombedes kryssa f|r det ena eller andra. Ena alternativet {r att Nordmark skall ans|ka om furstend|mestatus _enligt_bifogat_lagf|rslag_,det andra att Nordmark skall forts{tta vara baroni. Det bifogade lagf|rslaget inneh}ller tyv{rr avsnittet om att man kan st{lla upp i krontornering som f|rk{mpe f|r ett annat par kandidater. Detta strider mot SCAs Corpora, enligt ett beslut nyligen av styrelsen. Detta har konfirmerats av Drachenwalds ombudsman i styrelsen Eilis O'Bourne i brevv{xling med M{ster William de Corbie. Om vi f|rs|ker f} igenom detta lagf|rslag kommer vi att f} avslag, och s} m}ste hela processen tas om igen. Detta kommer att medf|ra ett dr|jsm}l p} flera m}nader, kanske ett }r. Fr}ga: Varf|r har inte denna passage i lagf|rslaget {ndrats n{r det nu var k{nt att det inte skulle g} att f} igenom? Det skulle kanske medf|rt ett dr|jsm}l p} en m}nad eller s}, men det {r {nd} inget j{mf|rt med om vi skickar in detta f|rslag, f}r det }ters{nt, {ndrar, skickar in igen, etc. Jag vidh}ller mitt eget tidigare f|rslag: Skriv en s} minimal lag som m|jligt, med bara det n|dv{ndigaste inneh}llet. N{r denna g}tt igenom och Nordmark blivit furstend|me kan vi b|rja {ndra som vi vill! Frithiof, rabiat. Sven.Noren@kemi.UU.SE From nordmark-request Tue Jan 10 10:51:09 1995 Return-Path: ERA.ERAAINA@memo4.ericsson.se Received: from mailgate.ericsson.se (mailgate.ericsson.se [130.100.2.2]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA22103 for ; Tue, 10 Jan 1995 10:51:08 +0100 From: ERA.ERAAINA@memo4.ericsson.se Received: from edt02.ericsson.se (edt02.ericsson.se [136.225.9.4]) by mailgate.ericsson.se (8.6.9/1.0) with ESMTP id KAA09247 for ; Tue, 10 Jan 1995 10:51:03 +0100 Received: from memo.ericsson.se by eds.ericsson.se (PMDF V4.3-8 #7344) id <01HLOG6ATY8W9I4J7L@eds.ericsson.se>; Tue, 10 Jan 1995 10:52:30 +0100 Received: with PMDF-MR; Tue, 10 Jan 1995 10:52:30 +0100 MR-Received: by mta EDS05; Relayed; Tue, 10 Jan 1995 10:52:30 +0100 Alternate-recipient: prohibited Disclose-recipients: prohibited Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 10:51:00 +0100 Subject: Re:Frithiof To: NORDMARK@LUDD.LUTH.SE Message-id: <4h5TqW3HsKmiHOGM*@MHS> X-Envelope-to: NORDMARK@LUDD.LUTH.SE MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE UA-content-id: 4h5TqW3HsKmiHOGM X400-MTS-identifier: [;03250101105991/200301@EDS] Hop-count: 2 Status: RO --- Received from ERA.ERAAINA 08-757 3505 95-01-10 10.51 -> VAX.NORDMARK..LUDD.LUTH.SE..INET -: - - - - - - - - - - > MAIL USER IN VAX AND INTERNET Hejsan alla p=E5 prathoegen! Apropos Frithiofs inlaegg. Jag beklagar om det uppstaatt miss- foerstaand tidigare, jag trodde detta var klart foer alla. Vadaa? Jo, vi har inte alls naagon frihet att bara aendra lagen hur som helst naer vi blivit furstemdoeme. Lagaendringar ska alltid god- kaennas av Deras Kungliga Majestaeter och Drachenwalds drots. Det finns alltsaa ingen moejlighet att dra igenom furstendooemes- projektet med en lag som aer taenkt att aendras saa fort vi blivit godkaenda. Kort sagt - inte en sportmoessa aer jag raedd. Personligen tycker jag heller inte att det aer ett juste agerande och det aer inget jag stoeder eller skulle kunna taenka mig att bedriva. Med vaenliga haelsningar, Heloise From nordmark-request Tue Jan 10 11:54:28 1995 Return-Path: frithiof@akka.kemi.uu.se Received: from akka.kemi.uu.se (akka.kemi.uu.se [130.238.66.10]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA22372 for ; Tue, 10 Jan 1995 11:54:27 +0100 Received: by akka.kemi.uu.se id AA03891 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Tue, 10 Jan 1995 11:52:02 +0100 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 11:52:02 +0100 From: Sven Noren Message-Id: <199501101052.AA03891@akka.kemi.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: Lagen, igen. Status: RO Nej, jag vet att lag{ndringar ocks} m}ste f|lja Corpora, s} det g}r inte att inf|ra f|rk{mpar i efterhand. Men eftersom det lagf|rslag som f|religger inneh}ller m|jligheten att anv{nda f|rk{mpar i furstetorneringen kommer Board of Directors inte att sl{ppa igenom detta f|rslag! Varf|r spilla m|da p} ett d|df|tt f|rslag? Varf|r skicka ut en om|jlig lag f|r omr|stning? Jag f|resl}r en minimal lag f|r att det skulle ge maximal frihet! Frithiof den rabiate Sven.Noren@kemi.UU.SE From nordmark-request Tue Jan 10 13:58:42 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA22910 for ; Tue, 10 Jan 1995 13:58:42 +0100 Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA05256 for ; Tue, 10 Jan 1995 13:58:41 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA19119; Tue, 10 Jan 1995 13:58:35 +0100 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 13:58:35 +0100 Message-Id: <199501101258.NAA19119@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: Par.Leijonhufvud@labtek.ki.se CC: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: (message from Par Leijonhufvud labtek on Tue, 10 Jan 1995 08:37:22 +0200 (METDST)) Subject: Re: Kroningen??? From: Status: RO Ulfr, jag tror att du var p} en annan kr|ning {n den som jag bevistade... D{r var det en liten grodliknande man som hette Sir Timock som kr|ntes tillsammans med sin ganska alldagliga drottning Adelicia (?). De hade ett v{ldigt l}ngt sv{rd som folk svor eder p}. Baronparet av Nordmark satt som vanligt bredvid och s}g kungligare ut {n alla andra. Sen var det k| till maten, k| till disken, osv. Alla var p} gott hum|r fast jag var tr|tt efter den l}nga ritten fr}n Linkeboda. Konst och vetenskap var utst{lld, v{ldigt fint var det. Salen var praktfullt smyckad, maten var utm{rkt fast det var s{mre st{llt med drycken (baren var st{ngd). Som helhet tyckte jag att det var lyckat! Din (Ulfr) arbetsinsats noterades; du {r en klippa! William From nordmark-request Tue Jan 10 14:09:13 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA22958 for ; Tue, 10 Jan 1995 14:09:12 +0100 Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA05277 for ; Tue, 10 Jan 1995 14:09:11 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA19160; Tue, 10 Jan 1995 14:09:09 +0100 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 14:09:09 +0100 Message-Id: <199501101309.OAA19160@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: Sven.Noren@Kemi.UU.SE CC: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: <199501101052.AA03891@akka.kemi.uu.se> (message from Sven Noren on Tue, 10 Jan 1995 11:52:02 +0100) Subject: Re: Lagen, igen. From: Status: RO Att lagen fortfarande inneh}ller best{mmelser om f|rk{mpar beror sannolikt p} tr|gheten i systemet: det f|religgande {r det f|rslag som Nordmarks folk har r|stat fram. Att BoD hann f|re med sitt beslut om "inga f|rk{mpar" kan vi inte r} f|r. Ska lagf|rslaget {ndras b|r det g|ras av Tinget, vilket inneb{r f|rseningar. Jag tycker att det finns en po{ng med att lagf|rslaget g}r in s} som det nu {r skrivet: F|rst d} blir det en *officiell* beg{ran fr}n Nordmark att f} ha den ordning vi |nskar oss, med bl.a. f|rk{mpar. BoD m}ste d} ta st{llning till detta inte som ett vagt rykte eller det vanliga snacket, utan som en beg{ran fr}n 700 aktiva SCAiter. Jag ser inget som hindrar att vi f|rs|ker f|rhandla till oss ett *UNDANTAG* fr}n Corpora. Vi ska ligga }t dem som iglar och vara TYDLIGA om att det h{r inte {r n}got hugskott utan vad vi faktiskt VILL HA. Om och n{r BoD s{ger nej till v}rt lagf|rslag, f}r vi ta om det hela. Vi ska inte backa f|rr{n vi har utt|mt alla m|jligheter att f} det vi |nskar oss. F|rk{mpar {r en s} god ide att den {r v{rd f|rseningar! William de Corbie From nordmark-request Tue Jan 10 15:04:01 1995 Return-Path: bubba@ludd.luth.se Received: from taurus.ludd.luth.se (taurus.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.37]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA23325 for ; Tue, 10 Jan 1995 15:03:59 +0100 From: "U.J|rgen \hman" Received: (bubba@localhost) by taurus.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA02325 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se; Tue, 10 Jan 1995 15:03:57 +0100 Message-Id: <199501101403.PAA02325@taurus.ludd.luth.se> Subject: Lagen..... To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se (sca) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 15:03:56 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1010 Status: RO Salve allihopsens... Jag tycker att det verkar som att Sk{gge och William vill samma sak men med olika medel...eller har jag helt fel? William vill att vi ska skicka lagen som en markering att nu j**lar anamma f}r BoD passa sig. Och Sk{gge, som den norrbottning han {r, struntar d} i byr}krater och andra "makthavare" och vill ha en liten lag som vi kan leka med. Summan av kardemumman {r att Vi vill visa BoD och resten av den k{nda v{rlden att Nordmark (the ancient lands??) vill leka utan toppstyrning fr}n Milpitas. Har jag fel??? Ulf, med ett ben hos william och ett hos sk{gge..... - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Ulf Mj|dtunga(Mjoedtunga, Meadtongue) *Canton of Frostheim *(where frogs live NOT) Vert, in pale a crescent inverted *Barony of Nordmark and a Thor's hammer argent. *Kingdom of Drachenwald bubba@ludd.luth.se -=- U.J|rgen \hman -=- U.Joergen Oehman(NHL-Spelling) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From nordmark-request Tue Jan 10 18:38:36 1995 Return-Path: Kristina.Hildebrand@lobster.hsc.uu.se Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA24798 for ; Tue, 10 Jan 1995 18:38:35 +0100 Received: from columba.udac.uu.se (columba.UDAC.UU.SE [130.238.4.133]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA05982 for ; Tue, 10 Jan 1995 18:38:34 +0100 Received: from lobster.hsc.uu.se by columba.udac.uu.se with SMTP id AA48856 (5.67b8/IDA-1.4.4 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Tue, 10 Jan 1995 18:38:32 +0100 Received: from [130.238.165.74] (enkrihi.ENGELSKA.UU.SE) by lobster.hsc.uu.se with SMTP id AA12270 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Tue, 10 Jan 1995 18:38:29 +0100 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 18:38:29 +0100 Message-Id: <199501101738.AA12270@lobster.hsc.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Kristina.Hildebrand@engelska.uu.se Subject: Re: Kroningen??? X-Charset: LATIN1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: RO >Ulfr, jag tror att du var p} en annan kr|ning {n den som >jag bevistade... D{r var det en liten grodliknande man >som hette Sir Timock som kr|ntes tillsammans med sin ganska >alldagliga drottning Adelicia (?). Jag antar att detta ska f|rest{lla komiskt. Jag tycker att det {r of|rsk{mt och on|digt, och hur vet vi att ingen |vers{tter och vidarebefordrar det? Celemon From nordmark-request Wed Jan 11 00:58:50 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA27519; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 00:58:48 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id AAA20873; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 00:58:47 +0100 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 00:58:47 +0100 Message-Id: <199501102358.AAA20873@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: bubba@ludd.luth.se CC: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: <199501101403.PAA02325@taurus.ludd.luth.se> (bubba@ludd.luth.se) Subject: Re: Lagen..... From: Status: RO Nja, att skicka v}rt f|rslag till BoD {r ju v}rt enda s{tt att s{ga OFFICIELLT vad vi |nskar oss. Det {r allts} inte n}gon hotelse jag avser, utan en beg{ran om klart besked. Jag menar, vad {r det f|r mening med att skicka in en anh}llan om man inte ens f}r till}telse att tala om vad man vill? William From nordmark-request Wed Jan 11 11:01:04 1995 Return-Path: frithiof@akka.kemi.uu.se Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA00158 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 11:01:03 +0100 Received: from akka.kemi.uu.se (akka.kemi.uu.se [130.238.66.10]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA08110 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 11:01:02 +0100 Received: by akka.kemi.uu.se id AA00614 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Wed, 11 Jan 1995 10:58:34 +0100 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 10:58:34 +0100 From: Sven Noren Message-Id: <199501110958.AA00614@akka.kemi.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: lagen Status: RO Ulf skrev: >Jag tycker att det verkar som att Sk{gge och William vill samma sak >men med olika medel...eller har jag helt fel? Mjo, litet fel blev det nog... >William vill att vi ska skicka lagen som en markering att nu j**lar anamma >f}r BoD passa sig. Och Sk{gge, som den norrbottning han {r, struntar d} >i byr}krater och andra "makthavare" och vill ha en liten lag som vi kan >leka med. Jag f|rs|ker p}peka att det inte {r n}gon ide att skicka in det lagf|rslag som f|religger; BoD har sagt ifr}n, genom Drachenwalds ombudsman, att man inte kommer att till}ta f|rk{mpar i krontorneringar "not now, and not in the forseeable future". Jag vill ha en liten lag, inte att leka med, utan som inte st|r leken! Frithiof Sven.Noren@kemi.uu.se From nordmark-request Wed Jan 11 11:15:41 1995 Return-Path: frithiof@akka.kemi.uu.se Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA00307 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 11:15:40 +0100 Received: from akka.kemi.uu.se (akka.kemi.uu.se [130.238.66.10]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA08131 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 11:15:39 +0100 Received: by akka.kemi.uu.se id AA00710 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Wed, 11 Jan 1995 11:13:13 +0100 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 11:13:13 +0100 From: Sven Noren Message-Id: <199501111013.AA00710@akka.kemi.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: Re:Lagen Status: RO William skrev: >Jag tycker att det finns en po{ng med att lagf|rslaget g}r in >s} som det nu {r skrivet: F|rst d} blir det en *officiell* >beg{ran fr}n Nordmark att f} ha den ordning vi |nskar oss, >med bl.a. f|rk{mpar. BoD m}ste d} ta st{llning till detta >inte som ett vagt rykte eller det vanliga snacket, utan som >en beg{ran fr}n 700 aktiva SCAiter. Vi {r inte 700 aktiva SCAiter i Sverige, }tminstone inte vad BOD anbelangar. Det {r bara betalande medlemmar i SCA,inc. som kan r|sta om huruvida vi skall ans|ka om furstend|mestatus, det vill s{ga s}d{r 150-200 pers (om n}gon har den exakta siffran vill jag g{rna h|ra den). Detta utg|r p} sin h|jd en procent av SCAs totala medlemmar. Dessutom {r vi inte enh{lliga i den h{r fr}gan! >Vi ska ligga }t dem som iglar och vara TYDLIGA om att det h{r >inte {r n}got hugskott utan vad vi faktiskt VILL HA. Den h{r fr}gan har diskuterats inom SCA i s}d{r 25-30 }r. Jag tror nog att medlemmarna i BOD har h|rt alla argument. Om de {nd} beslutar att det inte skall vara n}gra f|rk{mpar tror jag inte att de l}ter sig p}verkas av ett par hundra pers i utkanten av den k{nda v{rlden. M|jligen kan de tycka att vi {r korkade som beg{r detta trots deras tydliga markering, n}got som nog inte |kar v}ra chanser att bli furstend|me. >Om och n{r BoD s{ger nej till v}rt lagf|rslag, f}r vi ta om >det hela. Vi ska inte backa f|rr{n vi har utt|mt alla m|jligheter >att f} det vi |nskar oss. F|rk{mpar {r en s} god ide att den {r >v{rd f|rseningar! Hur l}ng f|rsening? Ett }r? Tv}? N{r tr|ttnar BOD p} v}rt tjat? Frithiof den fradgande, Sven.Noren@kemi.uu.se From nordmark-request Wed Jan 11 11:48:13 1995 Return-Path: leeu@celsiustech.se Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA00494 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 11:48:12 +0100 Received: from world.celsiustech.se (world.celsiustech.se [139.58.1.3]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA08183 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 11:48:08 +0100 Received: (leeu@localhost) by world.celsiustech.se (8.6.9/8.6.4) id LAA18886 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 11:48:01 +0100 From: Leif Euren Message-Id: <199501111048.LAA18886@world.celsiustech.se> Subject: Re: Lagen To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se (Nordmark Mailing List (Prath|gen)) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 11:47:59 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 629 Status: RO Frithiof skrev: > Vi {r inte 700 aktiva SCAiter i Sverige, }tminstone inte vad BOD > anbelangar. Det {r bara betalande medlemmar i SCA,inc. som kan > r|sta... (om n}gon har den exakta siffran vill jag g{rna h|ra den). Det var jag som skrev till SCA Registry och best{llde etiketter f|r utskicket. Det gjorde jag enligt de anvisningar jag f}tt fr}n mistress Maire: etiketter till alla som p} n}got s{tt var medlemmar i SCA Inc vid tillf{llet, och tillh|rde Nordmark (dvs bodde i Sverige). Jag fick 205 st! Det betyder att BoD (enligt en gammal tumregel) antar att det finns c:a 600 aktiva "SCAdians" i h{r. /Peder Klingrode From nordmark-request Wed Jan 11 12:25:20 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA00665 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 12:25:19 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA22298; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 12:25:13 +0100 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 12:25:13 +0100 Message-Id: <199501111125.MAA22298@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: Sven.Noren@Kemi.UU.SE CC: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: <199501111013.AA00710@akka.kemi.uu.se> (message from Sven Noren on Wed, 11 Jan 1995 11:13:13 +0100) Subject: Re: Re:Lagen From: Status: RO Frithiof: Antalet m{nniskor som ing}r i en SCA-grupp fungerar ju p} ett k{nt s{tt. Vi m} vara n}gonstans mellan 150 och 250 som {r betalande medlemmar, men n{r BoD ser dem vet de mycket v{l att det d|ljer sig minst lika m}nga till bakom den siffran. Om till exempel 90% av de betalande medlemmarna tycker n}got, finns det all anledning att antaga att 90% av de icke betalande ocks} tycker s}. BoD kan knappast ignorera dessa personer n{r de sj{lva f|retr{der ett system som aktivt st|der s}dana personers f|refintlighet inom SCA. Allts}: Jag skrev 700 personer, vilket {r n}nstans i n{rheten av hur m}nga vi faktiskt {r. Det vet BoD, och om de inte vet det s} torde de f} veta i samband med v}r petition. Nu {r det s} att (1) Tinget har beslutat om vad vi vill ha i v}r lag. (2) Efter detta har Maire f}tt besked om att f|rk{mpar inte godk{nns, men *vi* har inte f}tt n}got s}dant besked. Det finns allts} demokratiskt sett inget annat att agera p}, {n det som Tinget beslutat. Icke-officiella f|rvarningar till prath|gen om att BoD s{ger nej till f|rk{mpar, kan vi inte agera p}. Det {r viktigt att vi inte l}ter den h{r fr}gan viftas bort eller kv{vas i sin linda. Som jag ser det, {r det precis vad man f|rs|ker g|ra n{r man inte ens vill ta st{llning till en petition som inte {r 100% Corpora-kompatibel redan n{r den l{mnas in. Du skriver att den h{r fr}gan har diskuterats l{nge. Just det. Vad vi nu g|r {r att l}ta droppen urholka stenen: ju starkare och tydligare vi {r, desto b{ttre. Vi st|der moraliskt den omfattande opinion inom SCA som vill ha reformer p} den h{r punkten. Nordmarks handlanden kan ge andra r}g i ryggen, det blir fler som beg{r samma sak. De som st}r f|r det nuvarande systemet ska veta att (1) vi t{nker inte h}lla k{ften bara f|r att n}gon viftar med Corpora och (2) vi kommer att forts{tta jobba tills vi f}r det vi vill ha, (3) deras tjurskalliga idiot- nej till reformer skapar bara missn|je och skadar d{rf|r SCA. William From nordmark-request Wed Jan 11 15:00:59 1995 Return-Path: xordph@ludd.luth.se Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA01907 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:00:58 +0100 From: "L. J|rgen \hman" Received: (xordph@localhost) by father.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA01145 for nordmark; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:00:33 +0100 Message-Id: <199501111400.PAA01145@father.ludd.luth.se> Subject: Re: spridande av text To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:00:32 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199412272249.XAA18578@groucho.csd.uu.se> from "vader@emil.csd.uu.se" at Dec 27, 94 11:49:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1317 Status: RO > > Jag blev mycket |verraskad |ver ett brev jag fick idag > fr}n en person i USA. Vederb|rande s{ger att korrespondensen > mellan mig och ombudsmannen f|r Drachenwald hade vidare- > befordrats till en mailing-lista i An Tir. > > Detta var ABSOLUT INTE MENINGEN. Jag protesterar och k{nner > mig kr{nkt av att jag inte blev tillfr}gad. Jag ville INTE > att det h{r materialet skulle spridas till Rialto eller > andra delar av SCA, eftersom det r|rde Nordmarks interna > aff{rer. Jag vill inte att det ska se ut som om jag driver > n}gon sorts kampanj, vilket {r det intryck man kan f}. > > Nordmarks prath|g h|r till oss, inte till hela den k{nda > v{rlden. Om en s}dan h{r text l{ses av personer utan k{nnedom > om kontexten, leder det ofelbart till missf|rst}nd. Men nu > har jag l{rt mig min l{xa. Jag kommer aldrig mer att skicka > den h{r typen av priviligierad information till prath|gen. > > William de Corbie > Som organisat|r(n}jd) och rutinerad n{tsurfare s} t{nkte s} s{ga n}gra ord. Hur har du f}tt f|r dig att NML skulle vara "v}r" ? Den {r |ppen f|r alla som vill vara med. Ska vi inf|ra "intr{des prov" till NML ? Jag tror inte det, internet {r en fri anarki och b|r s} f|rbli. Om man postar n}tt p} en mailinglista s} b|r man r{kna med att hela n{ttet kan f} reda p} det. /Styrbj|rn, N}jd From nordmark-request Wed Jan 11 15:11:18 1995 Return-Path: frithiof@akka.kemi.uu.se Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA01970 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:11:17 +0100 Received: from akka.kemi.uu.se (akka.kemi.uu.se [130.238.66.10]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA08573 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:11:16 +0100 Received: by akka.kemi.uu.se id AA01895 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:08:49 +0100 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:08:49 +0100 From: Sven Noren Message-Id: <199501111408.AA01895@akka.kemi.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: lagen Status: RO > William: >Nu {r det s} att (1) Tinget har beslutat om vad vi vill ha i v}r >lag. Frithiof: Tinget besl|t, f|rsta g}ngen det samlades, att det skulle vara _r}dgivande_, ej beslutande. Detta f|r att baroniets {mbetsm{n skulle kunna agera utan att f|rst ha tingsbeslut p} alla punkter. >(2) Efter detta har Maire f}tt besked om att f|rk{mpar inte >godk{nns, men *vi* har inte f}tt n}got s}dant besked. BODs beslut i den h{r fr}gan fanns i den rapport fr}n oktoberm|tet som gjorts offentlig. Dessutom har du William f}tt direkt besked i den h{r fr}gan av Drachenwalds ombudsman i ett brev till dig som du sj{lv refererat h{r i detta offentliga forum. Vad {r det du beg{r? > .....man inte ens vill ta st{llning till en petition >som inte {r 100% Corpora-kompatibel redan n{r den l{mnas in. Ett firstend|mes lag kan inte strida mot Corpora, eftersom Corpora st}r |ver s}dana lagar. Allt enligt Corpora OCH enligt f|rslaget till lag f|r Nordmark. Om vi nu vill ha en lag som inte |verensst{mmer med Corpora vore det v{l rimligare att beg{ra en {ndring av Corpora, i st{llet f|r att f|rs|ka bryta mot den? Allts} beg{ra {ndring f|rst, och n{r denna g}tt igenom och vunnit laga kraft inf|ra den lag vi vill ha? Frithiof, tr|tt Sven.Noren@kemi.UU.SE From nordmark-request Wed Jan 11 15:14:15 1995 Return-Path: xordph@ludd.luth.se Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA01993 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:14:14 +0100 From: "L. J|rgen \hman" Received: (xordph@localhost) by father.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA02290 for nordmark; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:13:49 +0100 Message-Id: <199501111413.PAA02290@father.ludd.luth.se> Subject: Re: spridande av text To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:13:49 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "Par Leijonhufvud labtek" at Dec 29, 94 07:35:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 911 Status: RO < klipp > > > D{rtill kan man argumentera att allt som skrivs i allm{nna medier (t.ex.=20 > tidningar, news-grupper, etc) {r offentliga och d{rmed citerbara (med=20 > vederb|rligt angivande av k{lla, etc). Fr}gan om Prath|gen {r en s}dan=20 > offentlig k{lla {r intressant. Hur "sv}rt" {r det att komma med p} den? > < klipp > > /UlfR > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Name: Paer K.G. Leijonhufvud Oh, *practice*. I don=B4t mind=20 > Email: Par.Leijonhufvud@labtek.ki.se *practising*. So long as we > Voice: +46-(0)8-758 8459 don=B4t have to do it for real... > Det {r inte sv}rt att komma med p} NML. Det {r bara att posta ett brev till nordmark-requset@ludd.luth.se s} {r man med. NML {r definitivt en offentlig k{lla. Hur n}n kan tro att den {r en "hemlig" kanal som inget kommer ut fr}n {r f|r mig en g}ta. /Styrbj|rn, N}jd From nordmark-request Wed Jan 11 15:38:55 1995 Return-Path: xordph@ludd.luth.se Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA02222 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:38:55 +0100 From: "L. J|rgen \hman" Received: (xordph@localhost) by father.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA03132 for nordmark; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:38:29 +0100 Message-Id: <199501111438.PAA03132@father.ludd.luth.se> Subject: Re: hur sv}rt det {r att f} vara med.... To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:38:28 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199412302127.WAA16587@box.ludd.luth.se> from "U.J|rgen \hman" at Dec 30, 94 10:27:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1804 Status: RO > > Salve igen allihopsens.... > > Det undrades |ver hur sv}rt det {r att "f} vara med" p} Prath|gen..... > I egenskap av inofficiell Vice-Nordmarks-magiker (prath|gs-adm) s} > svarar jag i Styrbj|rns st{lle..... > Det {r inte sv}rt att f} vara med, det som kr{vs {r att man skickar ett > litet e-mail till nordmark-request@ludd.luth.se d{r man skriver sin > e-mail adress. D{refter tar Huvudmagikern(Styrbj|rn) och l{gger till > vederb|rande i listan och d} {r man helt enkelt med..... > > S} sv}rt(?) {r det att f} vara med.... > > /Ulf, vice magiker > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > Ulf Mj|dtunga(Mjoedtunga, Meadtongue) *Canton of Frostheim > *(where frogs live NOT) > Vert,in pale a crescent inverted *Barony of Nordmark > and a Thor's hammer argent. *Kingdom of Drachenwald > > bubba@ludd.luth.se -=- U.J|rgen \hman -=- U.Joergen Oehman(NHL-Spelling) > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > K{re broder Ulf det heter inte magiker, det heter N}jd. /Styrbj|rn, N}jd (***************************************************************************) (* | *) (* Lord Styrbj|rn Halte | L. J|rgen /hman *) (* Canton of Frostheim | Ludd Computer Club *) (* Barony of Nordmark | University of Lule} *) (* Kingdom of Drachenwald | E-mail: *) (* | xordph@ludd.luth.se *) (* Vert, in pale a | Snail-mail: *) (* crescent inverted | K}rhusv{gen 5 8:806 *) (* and a Thor's | 97754 Lule} *) (* hammer or. | Sweden *) (* | Telephone: *) (* This divide dream and reality -----> | +46-920 11637 *) (* | *) (***************************************************************************) From nordmark-request Wed Jan 11 15:46:03 1995 Return-Path: <@nomina.lu.se:kansli.lth-j.spanne@macpost.lu.se> Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA02297 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:46:02 +0100 Received: from macpost.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP (5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA00836; Wed, 11 Jan 95 15:48:38 +0100 Subject: Re: lagen To: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 15:48:42 +0100 Message-Id: <950111.154842.74143@macpost.lu.se> Status: RO >Frithiof: >Tinget besl|t, f|rsta g}ngen det samlades, att det skulle vara >_r}dgivande_, ... ... >BODs beslut i den h{r fr}gan fanns i den rapport fr}n oktoberm|tet som >gjorts offentlig. Dessutom har du William f}tt direkt besked i den h{r >fr}gan av Drachenwalds ombudsman ... ... > >Om vi nu vill ha en lag som inte |verensst{mmer med Corpora vore det v{l >rimligare att beg{ra en {ndring av Corpora, i st{llet f|r att f|rs|ka >bryta mot den? Allts} beg{ra {ndring f|rst, och n{r denna g}tt igenom >och vunnit laga kraft inf|ra den lag vi vill ha? Inst{mmer helt med Frithiof. Alternativt bli furstend|me p} den b{sta/minst restriktiva lag som vi Corpora-enligt kan f} och sedan verka f|r en {ndring av Corpora f|r att f} en s}dan lag som vi egentligen vill ha. - Jag skulle dessutom vara f|rsiktig i uttalanden om hur viktigt f|rk{mpesystemet egentligen {r f|r Nordmarks befolkning. Tinget kom visserligen fram till ett beslut, men jag tror att somligas inv{ndningar mot f|rk{mpesystemet st}r kvar. [r det l|nt att ge upp den |kade autonomi vi faktiskt kan f} som furstend|me, bara f|r att vi vill g|ra en markering att "vi {r speciella"? - Som furstend|me har vi kanske t o m st|rre chans att f} till en {ndring i Corpora; det {r det vi m}ste verka f|r om vi absolut vill ha ett f|rk{mpesystem, det duger inte att bara gn{lla |ver att Corpora inte ser ut som vi vill. Vi ska f|rs|ka p}verka hur SCA styrs i stort; varf|r ska BoD egentligen ha befogenhet att uttala sig om s}dant h{r? Men det finns r{tt och fel s{tt att revoltera p}; att f|rs|ka sl} in en ekport med bara skallen {r inte |verdrivet effektivt. /Catrin From nordmark-request Wed Jan 11 15:55:56 1995 Return-Path: xordph@ludd.luth.se Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA02349 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:55:55 +0100 From: "L. J|rgen \hman" Received: (xordph@localhost) by father.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA03946 for nordmark; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:55:30 +0100 Message-Id: <199501111455.PAA03946@father.ludd.luth.se> Subject: Re: TV2's nyheter....*suck* To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:55:30 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199501032024.VAA03030@eddie.ludd.luth.se> from "U.J|rgen \hman" at Jan 3, 95 09:24:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1865 Status: RO > > Salve allihopsens.... > > Jag undrar om ni s}g Rapport ig}r, 2/1, d{r ett inslag handlade om polisens > teorier ang}ende det |kade v}ldet och dess koppling till rollspel. > Jag s}g det inte sj{lv men min sambo s}g det och trodde att jag blivit > lite arg om jag sett det. De kom fram till att rollspel inte var bra men > att det fanns n}got v{rre....Live Role Playing det var minsann alldeles > ohyggligt farligt.... > > I och med att det pratades om lajvande s} visades en h|g med Frostheimare > i aktion (min sambo {r inte s} aktiv i det historiska, men hon k{nner igen de > flesta av "k{rn-frostheimarna"). Det som visades var d} en typisk SCA-fight > mellan Erik FitzWilliam och n}gon hon inte k{nde igen (Lord Eriks l}nga > fj{llpansar k{nner hon, liksom de allra flesta andra, igen). Herr Styrbj|rn > fladdrade f|rbi i bakgrunden och Herr Johan skymtade i bakgrunden vid > avslutningens hit-och-dit-zoomning. > > Jag ser ju inte oss som lajvare....med oss avser jag Frostheim och f|r > |vrigt hela Nordmark och Dr|mmen. Lajvare }terskapar inte de nyskapar... > med vampyrt{nder, alv|ron, boffersv{rd och gummimasker....eller??? > > Rapport har email-adressen: rapport@svt.se (om jag inte minns fel) > > Skriv och r{tta dem... > > / Ulf, lite uppr|rd.... > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > Ulf Mj|dtunga(Mjoedtunga, Meadtongue) *Canton of Frostheim > *(where frogs live NOT) > Vert, in pale a crescent inverted *Barony of Nordmark > and a Thor's hammer argent. *Kingdom of Drachenwald > > bubba@ludd.luth.se -=- U.J|rgen \hman -=- U.Joergen Oehman(NHL-Spelling) > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > Jag s{ger bara en sak... FY FAN !!! Nu k{nns det lite b{ttre. Jag har skrivit ett brev till rapport nu. Det borde alla g|ra... /Styrbj|rn, kr{nkt... From nordmark-request Wed Jan 11 15:58:00 1995 Return-Path: xordph@ludd.luth.se Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA02374 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:57:59 +0100 From: "L. J|rgen \hman" Received: (xordph@localhost) by father.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA04054 for nordmark; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:57:34 +0100 Message-Id: <199501111457.PAA04054@father.ludd.luth.se> Subject: Re: hur blev det med..... To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:57:33 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199501090932.KAA02941@box.ludd.luth.se> from "U.J|rgen \hman" at Jan 9, 95 10:32:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 857 Status: RO > > Salve allihopsens..... > > Jag har en fr}ga! En enda fr}ga som {r v{ldigt enkel, men v{ldigt viktig. > Svaret p} fr}gan kan, m{rk v{l KAN, f} f|r|dande konsekvenser inf|r > framtiden. > > Fr}gan {r...... > > HUR GICK DET MED V]R [LV???? > > N]!!!!! fr}n Ulf, nyfiken p} vem som hamnar p} frostheims bl}a lista... :) > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > Ulf Mj|dtunga(Mjoedtunga, Meadtongue) *Canton of Frostheim > *(where frogs live NOT) > Vert, in pale a crescent inverted *Barony of Nordmark > and a Thor's hammer argent. *Kingdom of Drachenwald > > bubba@ludd.luth.se -=- U.J|rgen \hman -=- U.Joergen Oehman(NHL-Spelling) > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > Det lyckades vi inte f} n}tt svar p}, men vi vet ju vem som utreder saken. :-) /Styrbj|rn From nordmark-request Wed Jan 11 16:06:49 1995 Return-Path: xordph@ludd.luth.se Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA02449 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 16:06:48 +0100 From: "L. J|rgen \hman" Received: (xordph@localhost) by father.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA04522 for nordmark; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 16:06:23 +0100 Message-Id: <199501111506.QAA04522@father.ludd.luth.se> Subject: Re: Kroningen??? To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 16:06:22 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199501090928.KAA02930@box.ludd.luth.se> from "U.J|rgen \hman" at Jan 9, 95 10:28:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1104 Status: RO > > Salve allihopsens... > > Hur gick kr|ningen?? Blev r{tt Kung och Drottning kr|nta?? > N}gra skandaler?? Mordf|rs|k?? F|rgiftade matr{tter?? > Vem intrigerade mot vem?? Och vem sprang naken med badbollen > under armen?? :) > > H{lsningar / Ulf, skvallersugen... :) > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > Ulf Mj|dtunga(Mjoedtunga, Meadtongue) *Canton of Frostheim > *(where frogs live NOT) > Vert, in pale a crescent inverted *Barony of Nordmark > and a Thor's hammer argent. *Kingdom of Drachenwald > > bubba@ludd.luth.se -=- U.J|rgen \hman -=- U.Joergen Oehman(NHL-Spelling) > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > Allt gick bra. Maten gick att {ta och st{mmningen var b{st vid bordet som delades av Frostheim, Styringheim och Ex. kungaparet. Feeesten.... Viken intrigerade mot mig och Ingrid. Dom kr{vde ers{ttning f|r att Ingrid har flyttat upp till mig i Frostheim. Kronan d|mde att jag skulle till h|ra viken i 1 }r. Av detta kan man l{ra att jungfrust|ld straffas h{rt. :-) /Styrbj|rn, N|jd och glad From nordmark-request Wed Jan 11 16:11:24 1995 Return-Path: xordph@ludd.luth.se Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA02474 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 16:11:23 +0100 From: "L. J|rgen \hman" Received: (xordph@localhost) by father.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA05288 for nordmark; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 16:10:58 +0100 Message-Id: <199501111510.QAA05288@father.ludd.luth.se> Subject: Re: Kroningen??? To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 16:10:58 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199501101738.AA12270@lobster.hsc.uu.se> from "Kristina.Hildebrand@engelska.uu.se" at Jan 10, 95 06:38:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 494 Status: RO > > >Ulfr, jag tror att du var p} en annan kr|ning {n den som > >jag bevistade... D{r var det en liten grodliknande man > >som hette Sir Timock som kr|ntes tillsammans med sin ganska > >alldagliga drottning Adelicia (?). > Jag antar att detta ska f|rest{lla komiskt. Jag tycker att det {r of|rsk{mt > och on|digt, och hur vet vi att ingen |vers{tter och vidarebefordrar det? > Celemon > Tror du att Drachewalds lysande regenter helt saknar humor ? det tror inte jag... /Styrbj|rn, fnissade From nordmark-request Wed Jan 11 16:47:52 1995 Return-Path: xordph@ludd.luth.se Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA02761 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 16:47:51 +0100 From: "L. J|rgen \hman" Received: (xordph@localhost) by father.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA06509 for nordmark; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 16:47:26 +0100 Message-Id: <199501111547.QAA06509@father.ludd.luth.se> Subject: Rapport. To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 16:47:26 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 333 Status: RO Hej p} er alla ! 30 minuter efter att jag hade postat ett klagobrev till rapport g{llade deras kr{nkade inslag om rollspel mm. s} ringde sen dam fr}n TV i Ume och bad 1000 g}nger om urs{kt och lovade att aldrig g|ra om samma misstag igen. Det var samma dam som hade ringt till Ulf tidigare... Nu k{nns det b{ttre... /Styrbj|rn From nordmark-request Wed Jan 11 16:48:49 1995 Return-Path: <@nomina.lu.se:kansli.lth-j.spanne@macpost.lu.se> Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA02774 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 16:48:48 +0100 Received: from macpost.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP (5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA08043; Wed, 11 Jan 95 16:51:25 +0100 Subject: Re: Kroningen??? To: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 16:51:28 +0100 Message-Id: <950111.165128.74257@macpost.lu.se> Status: RO >> >... D{r var det en liten grodliknande man >> >som hette Sir Timock som kr|ntes tillsammans med sin ganska >> >alldagliga drottning Adelicia (?). >Tror du att Drachewalds lysande regenter helt saknar humor ? >... ... Har vi l{st samma inl{gg? Eller var finns humorn i ovanst}ende? Jag ser bara ett par plumpa och fullst{ndigt obefogade tillm{len. Man blir inte lovligt byte f|r s}nt h{r bara f|r att man sitter p} tronen; {ven kungligheter borde ha r{tt att bli behandlade med }tminstone element{r hyfs. /Catrin From nordmark-request Wed Jan 11 16:51:46 1995 Return-Path: xordph@ludd.luth.se Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA02812 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 16:51:46 +0100 From: "L. J|rgen \hman" Received: (xordph@localhost) by father.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA06615 for nordmark; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 16:51:21 +0100 Message-Id: <199501111551.QAA06615@father.ludd.luth.se> Subject: Re: Kroningen??? To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 16:51:20 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <950111.165128.74257@macpost.lu.se> from "Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se" at Jan 11, 95 04:51:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 734 Status: RO > > >> >... D{r var det en liten grodliknande man > >> >som hette Sir Timock som kr|ntes tillsammans med sin ganska > >> >alldagliga drottning Adelicia (?). > > >Tror du att Drachewalds lysande regenter helt saknar humor ? > >... ... > > Har vi l{st samma inl{gg? Eller var finns humorn i ovanst}ende? > Jag ser bara ett par plumpa och fullst{ndigt obefogade tillm{len. > Man blir inte lovligt byte f|r s}nt h{r bara f|r att man sitter > p} tronen; {ven kungligheter borde ha r{tt att bli behandlade med > }tminstone element{r hyfs. > > /Catrin > Jag tyckte inl{gger var ironiskt och humoristiskt i sin helhet. Om man rycker ut en mening som du har gjort s} kan det ju misstolkas totalt. Smaken {r som baken... /Styrbj|rn From nordmark-request Wed Jan 11 22:52:30 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA13631; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 22:52:29 +0100 Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA09898; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 22:52:27 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA25475; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 22:52:26 +0100 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 22:52:26 +0100 Message-Id: <199501112152.WAA25475@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: xordph@ludd.luth.se CC: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: <199501111400.PAA01145@father.ludd.luth.se> (xordph@ludd.luth.se) Subject: Re: spridande av text From: Status: RO Styrbj|rn... Det m{rks att det har varit helger och folk har varit borta. Det verkar som om du just kommit tillbaka och hittat julens post. R{tt? Om du hade l{st hela kommentarserien till det inl{gg du nu citerar, s} hade du uppt{ckt att saken redan {r utagerad. L}t oss begrava den. William From nordmark-request Wed Jan 11 22:58:21 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA13669 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 22:58:21 +0100 Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA09906 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 22:58:19 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA25485; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 22:58:17 +0100 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 22:58:17 +0100 Message-Id: <199501112158.WAA25485@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: Sven.Noren@Kemi.UU.SE CC: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: <199501111408.AA01895@akka.kemi.uu.se> (message from Sven Noren on Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:08:49 +0100) Subject: Re: lagen From: Status: RO Frithiof: >BODs beslut i den h{r fr}gan fanns i den rapport fr}n oktoberm|tet som >gjorts offentlig. Dessutom har du William f}tt direkt besked i den h{r >fr}gan av Drachenwalds ombudsman i ett brev till dig som du sj{lv >refererat h{r i detta offentliga forum. Vad {r det du beg{r? Jag beg{r ingenting. Saken {r att Nordmark inte har st{llt fr}gan till BoD och inte f}tt n}got svar fr}n BoD. Rapporten fr}n BoDs oktoberm|te har inte tills{nts v}r drots. Min privata korrespondens med en BoD-ombudsman {r inte heller n}got officiellt besked. Naturligtvis kan inte ett furstend|mes lag strida mot Corpora. Genom att g} in med v}r beg{ran ber vi BoD att fixa s} att vi f}r det vi vill ha. Att det strider mot Corpora beh|ver vi inte bry oss om: Vill BoD g|ra oss till lags kan de {ndra Corpora. Vi f|rs|ker inte bryta mot Corpora. William From nordmark-request Wed Jan 11 22:59:05 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA13682; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 22:59:04 +0100 Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA09911; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 22:59:03 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA25488; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 22:59:02 +0100 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 22:59:02 +0100 Message-Id: <199501112159.WAA25488@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: xordph@ludd.luth.se CC: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: <199501111413.PAA02290@father.ludd.luth.se> (xordph@ludd.luth.se) Subject: Re: spridande av text From: Status: RO Jag har aldrig trott att prath|gen {r hemlig. William From nordmark-request Wed Jan 11 23:11:01 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA13818 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 23:11:00 +0100 Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA09982 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 23:10:58 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id XAA25514; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 23:10:56 +0100 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 23:10:56 +0100 Message-Id: <199501112210.XAA25514@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se CC: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: <950111.165128.74257@macpost.lu.se> (Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se) Subject: Re: Kroningen??? From: Status: RO H{r konstaterar vi snabbt att humor {r n}got v{ldigt personligt. Jag har f|rs|kt roa min gamla mor genom att visa Black Adder och Chelmsford 123. Hon bara g{spar och s{ger "det var det l|jligaste och mest meningsl|sa skit jag n}nsin har sett". Detta som exempel p} hur det som {r roligt f|r den ene kan vara obegripligt eller t|ntigt f|r den andre. Sj{lv har jag mycket sv}rt att uppskatta humorn i amerikanska serier som Murphy Brown eller Seinfeld. Just av den anledningen tycker jag att det verkligt ohyfsade och plumpa {r att citera en mening utanf|r dess sammanhang, gn{lla om att den inte var rolig, och fylla p} med anklagelser och moralkakor. Sk{rp er! Jag g|r inte anspr}k p} att vara n}gon s{rskilt rolig person, men inl{gget skrevs i humoristisk avsikt och st}r i samband med en annan sm}knasig skildring av kr|ningen, som jag kommenterade. William From nordmark-request Wed Jan 11 23:30:50 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA13969 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 23:30:49 +0100 Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA10037 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 23:30:47 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id XAA25527; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 23:30:45 +0100 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 23:30:45 +0100 Message-Id: <199501112230.XAA25527@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se CC: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: <950111.154842.74143@macpost.lu.se> (Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se) Subject: Re: lagen From: Status: RO Jag tror att det finns en del missuppfattningar fr}n diverse h}ll r|rande hur SCA funkar och hur man t{nker inom BoD och s} vidare... Fr}n b|rjan handlade det *inte* om att f} till en {ndring av Corpora, utan om att g|ra en kreativ tolkning av Corpora. Vi ans}g det m|jligt att f} med f|rk{mpar etcetera i en s}dan. Efter BoDs besked {r den v{gen st{ngd. Att nu g} in med v}rt lagf|rslag of|r{ndrat, inneb{r att vi indirekt beg{r att BoD antingen {ndrar sin tolkning av Corpora eller {ndrar Corpora. Det var allts} inget som Tinget hade i tankarna n{r man r|stade f|r det h{r lagf|rslaget. S{kert skulle det ha varit effektivare och sm{rtfriare att separera de tv} fr}gorna: furstend|met och Corpora-{ndringen. Det finns en lukt av "kamikaze" |ver den p}g}ende petitionen. Men att det blev s} beror inte bara p} envishet eller blindhet, utan p} att det f|rk{ttrade BoD-beslutet d|k upp innan *vi* hade f}tt en chans att st{lla fr}gan s} som vi hade t{nkt oss. Tanken var ju, om jag minns r{tt, att petitionen skulle }tf|ljas av ett brev d{r vi sa att "vi vet att det h{r {r tveksamt i f|r- h}llande till Corpora, men vi undrar om det {r m|jligt att f} ha den h{r lagen p} prov i t.ex. 2 }r". Detta orsakar dock total kortslutning i hj{rnan p} samtliga inblandade amerikaner, verkar det. De ser det som att antingen uppfyller man alla krav eller s} g|r man det inte. BOD SYSTEM version 30.0 ON-LINE >run Principality OK >temporary exception SYNTAX ERROR >change Corpora SYNTAX ERROR >cultural differences SYNTAX ERROR >logout BYE. William From nordmark-request Wed Jan 11 23:59:45 1995 Return-Path: xordph@ludd.luth.se Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA14189 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 23:59:44 +0100 From: "L. J|rgen \hman" Received: (xordph@localhost) by father.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id XAA24355 for nordmark; Wed, 11 Jan 1995 23:59:19 +0100 Message-Id: <199501112259.XAA24355@father.ludd.luth.se> Subject: Re: spridande av text To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 23:59:18 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199501112159.WAA25488@groucho.csd.uu.se> from "vader@emil.csd.uu.se" at Jan 11, 95 10:59:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 116 Status: RO > > Jag har aldrig trott att prath|gen {r hemlig. > > William > Mycket naivt, men nu vet du b{ttre. /Styrbj|rn From nordmark-request Thu Jan 12 00:02:12 1995 Return-Path: xordph@ludd.luth.se Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA14200 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 00:02:11 +0100 From: "L. J|rgen \hman" Received: (xordph@localhost) by father.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id AAA24445 for nordmark; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 00:01:45 +0100 Message-Id: <199501112301.AAA24445@father.ludd.luth.se> Subject: Re: spridande av text To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 00:01:44 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199501112152.WAA25475@groucho.csd.uu.se> from "vader@emil.csd.uu.se" at Jan 11, 95 10:52:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 450 Status: RO > > Styrbj|rn... > > Det m{rks att det har varit helger och folk har varit borta. Det > verkar som om du just kommit tillbaka och hittat julens post. R{tt? > Om du hade l{st hela kommentarserien till det inl{gg du nu citerar, > s} hade du uppt{ckt att saken redan {r utagerad. > > L}t oss begrava den. > > William > Visst l}t den vila i frid. Jag l{ste allt och kunde }nd}inte l}ta bli att svara. Alla m}ste ju f} tycka. Eller ??? /Styrbj|rn From nordmark-request Thu Jan 12 08:52:03 1995 Return-Path: akeros92@amanda2.ies.luth.se Received: from amanda2.ies.luth.se (amanda2.ies.luth.se [130.240.6.12]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA16372 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 08:52:03 +0100 Received: by amanda2.ies.luth.se (5.65+bind 1.7+ida 1.4.2/IDA-1.2.8-NS) id AA01785; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 08:52:02 +0100 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 08:52:02 +0100 From: Ake Rosenius Message-Id: <199501120752.AA01785@amanda2.ies.luth.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: SCA hugger dolkar i ryggar Status: RO Till Nordmarks medlemmar i allmänhet och någon vid namn Maria Rehn i synnerhet: Dagens nummer av Norrländska Socialdemokraten - den största dagstidningen i den här delen av landet - stoltserar på insändarplats med ett stycke svada undertecknad en viss Maria Rehn, ordförande i SCA-kantonen Frostheim. I detta angriper hon med viss glöd det faktum att Nordnytt för två veckor sedan illustrerade ett osakligt angrepp på rollspelshobbyn med några sekunders kämpalek mellan två medlemmar i SCA. Samtidigt kastar hon också en ångande varm bajsloska i ansiktet på alla landets rollspelare. Insändaren bär rubriken "VI SYSSLAR INTE MED ROLLSPEL!" i väl synlig 25-punkters text. Några citat: "Detta gjorde att man kunde uppfatta att medeltidsföreningen sysslar med rollspel samt att medlemmarna är blivande våldsbrottslingar." (SCA:s verksamhet) "bör absolut inte förknippas med sådana ämnen som rollspel och våldsbrott." "Frostheim står inte bakom rasistiska synsätt eller någon form av våldsbrott." Tack för det, Maria Rehn, TACK SÅ F-BANNAT MYCKET FÖR DET!!! Vi rollspelare har tillräckliga problem med självlärda psykologer och hispiga Livets Ordare som Allan Rubin och Didi Öhrstedt utan att behöva få ännu en kvarnsten runt halsen i form av representanter för en grann-genre. När massmedia kastade sig över paintballsporten för två år sedan tog roll- spelarna dess utövare i försvar, då vi kände att de var en besläktad grupp som vi kunde sympatisera med. Under den pågående debatten i landet (i sin helhet startad och underhållen av två ovannämnda personer) har Sveriges Roll- och Konfliktspelsförbund noggrant sett till att skilja på rollspelare och liveare för att ett "broderfolk" inte skall behöva råka ut för onödigt obehag. Rollspelsföreningar ute i landet har under alla år bjudit in lokala SCA-kantoner på sina evenemang för att sprida information om deras verksamhet. Du, däremot, kastar dig som en skållad råtta på rollspelarna för att försvara er mot ett inslag där ni inte ens blev omnämnda! Vad är ert PROBLEM egentligen!? Såg man någon jättestor skylt med texten "Frostheim" i bakgrunden? Nej! Hörde man en speakerröst som sade: "Här ser vi rollspelare från SCA i full färd med deras blodiga verksamhet"? Nej! SCA förblev fullständigt anonymt i hela inslaget, och alla utom verkligt insatta personer som såg det trodde att de såg rollspelare. Sedan är det ju värt en tanke att rollspelen framställdes som så mycket mer våldsamma just DÄRFÖR att man visade bilder av SCA. Egentligen är det väl vi som borde ta avstånd från er... Ponera att ni skulle sitta vid TV:n en kväll och plötsligt få se bilder av t.ex. en satanistisk sekt som just slaktar en get ute i skogen, och höra en nyhetsuppläsare säga: "SCA Frostheim är verkligen en mystisk förening. Sådana här aktiviteter bedriver de ute i våra svenska skogar". Med Maria Rehns sätt att resonera borde det alltså vara SEKTEN som skulle ha anledning att känna sig kränkt, inte SCA! Långsökt? Det tycker i alla fall jag. Nej, Maria Rehn, kom inte och tala om att känna dig djupt kränkt! Du har just själv kvalificerat dig som årets kränkare. Tack vare dig kommer NSD:s mångtaliga läsare nu att påminnas om det där vidriga inslaget (om rollspel) som de annars troligen skulle ha glömt vid det här laget. Eller är du själv med i Livets Ord? Vad vet jag. Då skulle jag i alla fall se en förklaring till allt det här. Till att börja med kan du vara tacksam över att vi rollspelare faktiskt INTE är psykotiska mordgalningar, som du så lämpligt framställer oss på offentlig plats, med tanke på hur många du måste ha retat upp denna morgon. Däremot är jag nog inte den ende som funderar på att börja skriva hätska insändare nästa gång det dyker upp artiklar om Frostheim (Hmm... "Reaktionärer i läder och plåt slår varandra med rottingar". Bra rubrik). Sedan kan jag inte låta bli en stilla undran om vad Nordmarks andra medlemmar egentligen tänker nu. I alla år har folk som spelar rollspel ofta också varit medlemmar i SCA, och vice versa. De flesta SCA-iter jag känner runtom i landet (ganska många) är mångåriga spelare som brukar vara trogna besökare av roll- spelskonvent. Jag kommer själv att träffa SCA-folk från Umeå och Sundsvall när jag åker till konventet SnöKon nu i helgen. Bara så jag vet, ska jag tolka det som att det är Frostheims åsikt att Uma och Gyllengran (som f.ö. BILDADES av en grupp rollspelare) består av blivande brottslingar som beblandar sig med rasister och våldsverkare? Och i så fall, vilka är egentligen era relationer till dessa kantoner!? Nej, man får hoppas att Maria Rehn inte är representativ för kantonen Frostheims medlemmar, och att de flesta skulle dra sig för att kasta ännu mer etter på en osakligt antastad hobby p.g.a. ett TV-inslag som inte ens angrep er. Om inte, kan jag bara å 100.000 rollspelares vägnar konstatera att med sådana vänner behöver man inga fiender! Åke Rosenius aktiv rollspelare sedan 12 år frilansande skribent och illustratör för Lancelot Games, NeoGames, Iron Crown Enterprises samt ett flertal svenska rollspelsfanzines f.d. MoA i SCA-kantonen Gyllengran P.S. För övrigt anser jag att SCA:s verksamhet är rent bedövande tråkig. Så det så! From nordmark-request Thu Jan 12 08:51:56 1995 Return-Path: frithiof@akka.kemi.uu.se Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA16366 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 08:51:56 +0100 Received: from akka.kemi.uu.se (akka.kemi.uu.se [130.238.66.10]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA11197 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 08:51:54 +0100 Received: by akka.kemi.uu.se id AA03492 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Thu, 12 Jan 1995 08:49:27 +0100 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 08:49:27 +0100 From: Sven Noren Message-Id: <199501120749.AA03492@akka.kemi.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: lagen Status: RO William: >Genom att g} in med v}r beg{ran ber vi BoD att fixa s} att vi >f}r det vi vill ha. Att det strider mot Corpora beh|ver vi inte >bry oss om: Vill BoD g|ra oss till lags kan de {ndra Corpora. Vore det inte b{ttre att i s} fall formulera det hela som en beg{ran, f|r att undvika missf|rst}nd? Att v}rt lagf|rslag strider mot Corpora {r mycket viktigt; det inneb{r att det kan f|rkastas i sin helhet, och d{rmed v}r beg{ran att f} bli furstend|me. Och varf|r skulle BOD vilja g|ra oss till lags? F|r ett }r sedan gick de emot majoriteten av SCAs medlemmar och inf|rde tv}ng p} medlemskap f|r att f} delta i SCAs evenemang! Detta upph{vdes efter en intensiv lobbykampanj fr}n ett antal av de mest inflytelserika medlemmarna. Vill vi ha {ndringar i Corpora {r det nog den v{gen vi m}ste g}, via lobbyn. Frithiof, med f|rnyade krafter. Sven.Noren@kemi.UU.SE From nordmark-request Thu Jan 12 10:04:07 1995 Return-Path: marianne.demaret@ped.gu.se Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA16681 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 10:04:06 +0100 Received: from ped.gu.se (hands.ped.gu.se [130.241.100.2]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA11409 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 10:04:05 +0100 Message-Id: <199501120904.KAA11409@urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se> Received: from [130.241.106.4] (asp004.asp.gu.se) by ped.gu.se with SMTP (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA177061425; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 10:03:45 +0100 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 10:03:45 +0100 X-Sender: pedmarid@ped.gu.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: Ake Rosenius From: marianne.demaret@ped.gu.se (Marianne Demaret) Subject: Re: SCA hugger dolkar i ryggar Cc: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Status: RO Till =C5ke Rosenius och alla rollspelare och livare i allm=E4nhet samt SCA-i= ter. Jag vill bara s=E4ga att jag inte tror att SCA-iter i allm=E4nhet har n=E5go= t emot rollspelare eller livare. Tv=E4rt emot hoppas jag! H=E4r nere i Gotvik/G=F6teborg =E4r flera av v=E5ra medlemmar dessutom aktiva livare elle= r rollspelare. Jag har sj=E4lv spelat mycket rollspel och funderar allvarligt att g=E5 p=E5 n=E5got "v=E4lregisserat" live n=E5gon g=E5ng, f=F6r det= verkar s=E5 roligt. Att ni f=E5tt er en "k=E4nga" av en SCA-it tycker jag =E4r olyckligt, och ja= g hoppas att det hela =E4r en begr=E4nsad f=F6reteelse, f=F6r jag vill absolut= inte att vi skall komma p=E5 motsatta sidor i den h=E4r debatten, som ju =E4r tot= alt hysterisk och l=F6jlig! Man kan lika g=E4rna ge sig p=E5 fotboll och= ishockey mm popul=E4ra sporter och snacka om masspsykos av =E5sk=E5darna p=E5 stora matc= her. Lika l=F6jligt allts=E5! Men tyv=E4rr =E4r det ju s=E5 med saker folk inte k= =E4nner till s=E5 mycket om - det m=E5ste ju helt enkelt vara farligt, eller hur! Ja= , huvaligen! Nej, jag tycker inte att vi skall s=E4rskilja s=E5 mycket p=E5 SCA och rollspelare. Jag tycker tv=E4rt om vi beh=F6ver mer rollspel inom SCA. Jag menar, att ta p=E5 sig sin dr=E4kt, g=E5 p=E5 en bankett och sedan sitta och= prata om datorer eller andra moderna f=F6reteelser =E4r ju verkligen att f=F6rst= =F6ra st=E4mmningen. Till alla SCA-iter vill jag bara s=E4ga: v=E5ga st=E5 f=F6r att vi faktiskt = har lite inslag av rollspel inom SCA och att m=E5nga av oss pysslar med rollspel och live ocks=E5! F=F6rs=F6k inte fj=E4rma oss alltf=F6r mycket fr=E5n= detta, f=F6r skulle det bli en riktig schism emellan grupperna s=E5 skulle vi riskera att f=F6rlora m=E5nga underbara medlemmar! Sedan kan man naturligtvis markera att vi inte sysslar med exakt samma saker, men som redan n=E4mnts av herr Peder, s=E5 vill jag ocks=E5 s=E4ga= att man nog skall vara lite f=F6rsiktig d=E5, f=F6r annars blir det l=E4tt just s=E5= som detta inslag tycks ha blivit. Och alla vet vi ju hur massmedia ivrigt slickar i sig allting och sedan spyr ur sig fullst=E4ndigt f=F6rvr=E4ngda sa= ker. Jag s=E4ger inte att det var s=E5 i detta fallet, f=F6r det k=E4nner jag= inte till n=E5got om, men det =E4r ju bland annat d=E4rf=F6r vi har den h=E4r debatten= just nu, eller hur? H=E4lsningar Marianne Demaret alias: Estridh Tyrheim drots i Gotvik From nordmark-request Thu Jan 12 10:57:12 1995 Return-Path: <@nomina.lu.se:kansli.lth-j.spanne@macpost.lu.se> Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA16951 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 10:57:11 +0100 Received: from macpost.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP(5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA12480; Thu, 12 Jan 95 10:50:08 +0100 Subject: Re: SCA hugger dolkar i ryggar To: akeros92@amanda2.ies.luth.se Cc: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 10:50:12 +0100 Message-Id: <950112.105012.74733@macpost.lu.se> Status: RO >... ... >Sedan kan jag inte leta bli en stilla undran om vad Nordmarks andra medlemmar >egentligen tdnker nu. I alla er har folk som spelar rollspel ofta ockse varit >medlemmar i SCA, ... ... > Bara se jag vet, ska jag tolka det som att det dr Frostheims esikt att Uma >och Gyllengran (som f.v. BILDADES av en grupp rollspelare) bester av blivande >brottslingar som beblandar sig med rasister och veldsverkare? Och i se fall, >vilka dr egentligen era relationer till dessa kantoner!? Vad andra Nordmarkare tycker faar de vael tala om sjaelva; personligen har jag inte laest den citerade insaendaren, men om citatet aer representativt, verkar det vara ett klart fall av att pennan/ordbehandlaren satts igaang innan hjaernan var riktigt paakopplad. - Av tidnings- och tv-folk kan man aldrig vaenta sig naagon djupare insikt eller analys i den haer sortens aemnen: bildninslaget i tv valdes vad jag foerstaar bara foer att naagon tyckte att "det verkade bra". Daerfoer aer det upp till oss att staa foer urskiljningen. Om naagon naemner rollspel och vaald i samma mening, och dessutom uttalar sig i SCA:s namn, dvs som representant foer "en annan saan daer konstig grupp", aer det gefundenes Fressen foer sensationsmurvlarna. - Visst var det fel av tv att inte skilja mellan SCA och rollspel, och visst maaste vi paatala det. Dock inte genom att slunga dynga paa en verksamhet som ju aer beslaektad med SCA:s. Just daerfoer att vi riskerar att drabbas av samma "knasboll"-staempel borde vi haalla samman mot folk som inte begriper baettre. Och foer helsicke dra inte in rasism och mundan politik i det haer. Sjaelv aer jag invandrare med raett saa tydliga politiska aasikter och tycker det aer synnerligen befriande att kunna laemna de aspekterna i garderoben naer jag ska festa ihop med SCA-iter - varav maaanga ocksaa aer rollspelare, live eller annorledes. Att foerst tala om rollspelare och sedan paapeka att _SCA_ inte staar bakom rasistiska synsaett aer taemligen klantigt. Min svaegerska, som har tvaa soener 9 och 12 aar gamla, fraagade mig nyligen med bekymrad min hur farligt jag tycker det haer med rollspel egentligen aer. Jag bjoed henne samt familj till min foedelsedagsfest, daer de faar tillfaelle att traeffa SCA-folk, rollspelare, krigsspelare, tolkieniter, tidig-musik- fantaster m m, och rekommenderade den sortens aktiviteter som en utmaerkt "livssimulator" - man faar prova paa olika situationer, konflikter, loesningar, reaktionssaett o dyl paa laatsas - och som en betydligt mera kreativ fritidssyssaelsaettning aen att glo paa tv. - Naer det gaeller eventuella vaaldsamheter saa kan man troligen "snedtaenda" paa vad som helst: en film, en fotbollsmatch, ett Aktuellt-reportage fraan Sarajevo, rent teoretiskt kanske ocksaa en SCA-tornering eller ett live-rollspel. Men naer det haender, ligger det egentliga felet naagon helt annanstans. Och det aer en annan historia... /Catrin From nordmark-request Thu Jan 12 13:01:12 1995 Return-Path: bubba@ludd.luth.se Received: from teena.ludd.luth.se (teena.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.30]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA17492 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 13:01:11 +0100 From: "U.J|rgen \hman" Received: (bubba@localhost) by teena.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA02091 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 13:01:09 +0100 Message-Id: <199501121201.NAA02091@teena.ludd.luth.se> Subject: Dolkhugg och s}nt... To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se (sca) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 13:01:07 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 4361 Status: RO Salve allihopsens... ang}ende dolkar i ryggen.... Nyhetss{ndningen handlade om olika teorier om huruvida rollspelare var farliga, paranoida, v}ldsm{n med hybris. Eftersom journalister {r okunniga murvlar, dock med vissa undantag, s} tyckte de f|rst}ss att det var b{st att vimkla det s} att rollspel visade sig vara utom- ordentligt farligt. I samband med detta s} tog de upp en, som de sade, farligare form av rollspel...LIVE!!!! Sammanhanget och andemeningen i hela reportaget verkade g} ut p} att visa hur hemskt och farligt det var med Lajv, och {ven med vanliga bords-rollspel f|r den delen. Det var allts} kopplingen till mord, v}ld, psykopater, blodsoffer, m.m. som Maria reagerade mot. Att den kopplingen kom via rollspelandet ser jag som en olycklig omst{ndighet. Vi {r faktiskt flera Frostheimare som reagerat och bl.a. ringt till TV och faktiskt f}tt en slags personlig urs{kt fr}n ansvarig personal p} Nordnytt's redaktioner. Jag tror att Maria skrev ins{ndaren d} hon fortfarande var arg, ledsen och uppr|rd. Pressen och massmedia har inte gjort sitt f|rsta fel i och med den h{r s{ndningen. Reportaget som bilderna var klippta ur (som gjordes d} Frostheim, p} uppdrag av Norrbottens Museum, hade en demo i parken utanf|r museet i Lulea) hade f|r |vrigt klippts ihop till att visa s} mycket svart som m|jligt av Frostheims baner samt att det hela gavs en obehaglig underton med hj{lp av v{lgjorda inzoomningar p} torshammare o.d. (Och vi vet ju alla vad media, med bl.a. Annika Hagstr|m i spetsen, har f|r inst{llning till torshammare o.d.) Sedan har vi tidningarna....st{ndigt fr}gor om huruvida vi kommer att dra till oss rasister, om vi {r storsvenskar, om vi {r ett KarlXII-s{llskap, om vi {r en asakult-f|rening..osv... Innan vi gick med p} att vara med i TV-Norrbotten hade vi mycket huvudbry och tinningsgnugg. Vi ville inte vara med om "totalit{r-tv" igen. TV-Norrbotten var V[LDIGT bra att ha att g|ra med...Det enda de ville banda var tre s}nger (vilket ju {r f|rst}eligt...alla kanske inte sjunger s} bra i direkts{ndning) sedan var resten direkts{nt. Detta {r det troligen den st|rsta anledningen till att Maria Rehn skrev sin ins{ndare. Rollspelare i all {ra....{r inte alla Nordmarks lokalgrupper startade av rollspelare?? Vad jag menar {r att det f|rmodligen fanns med minst en eller tv} rollspelare i varje nystartad grupp. Vi som startade Frostheim var alla utom en (eller alla, minns inte) mer eller mindre aktiva rollspelare. Anledningen till att vi startade Frostheim var inte att kunna lajva utan att kunna f|rdjupa oss i ett historieintresse. Jag vet att det finns lajvare i Nordmark och jag har inget emot lajvare i sig. Jag ser, i likhet med andra, en skillnad p} lajv- och sca-evenemang... ..visserligen finns det likheter, men man m}ste leka samma lek som de som anordnar leken. Jag har bra erfarenheter av live-grupper fr}n MTV i Styringheim...men jag har {ven mindre bra erfarenheter av live-grupper fr}n samma evenemang...Ett visst v{rdshus ligger mig v{ldigt varmt om hj{rtat... ..de leker p} de villkor som g{ller i l{gret. Detsamma kan jag tyv{rr inte s{ga om de Landsknektar som i somras sprang runt och st|rde, viftade med blanka vapen, |verf|ll folk med blanka vapen, pl}gade djur, f|rol{mpade folk och var till st|rsta delen av veckan berusade. Detta var ocks} Maria med om och hennes syn p} lajv och lajvare kanske har pr{glats en del av dessa r|t{gg. Hur som helst...folk {r p} "tr}kiga sca-evenemang" f|r att de vill vara d{r. Och de som bevistar ett sca-evenemang b|r leka enligt de normer som g{ller, och samma sak g{ller f|r alla som {r med p} ett live-evenemang... ]ke Rosenius undrar hur Frostheims relationer till Uma och Gyllengran {r... och d} ska jag ta mig friheten att svara... Svaret {r Bra...dock en n{rmare relation med Uma...av f|rklarliga sk{l... Jag har s{kert gl|mt n}got, men d} f}r ni fr}ga..... U.J|rgen \hman aktiv rollspelare sedan 9 }r Nuv. MoAS i Frostheim - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Ulf Mj|dtunga(Mjoedtunga, Meadtongue) *Canton of Frostheim *(where frogs live NOT) Vert, in pale a crescent inverted *Barony of Nordmark and a Thor's hammer argent. *Kingdom of Drachenwald bubba@ludd.luth.se -=- U.J|rgen \hman -=- U.Joergen Oehman(NHL-Spelling) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From nordmark-request Thu Jan 12 13:08:17 1995 Return-Path: masc@sweden.hp.com Received: from hplb.hpl.hp.com (hplb.hpl.hp.com [15.255.59.2]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA17536 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 13:08:14 +0100 Received: from hpustoix.sweden.hp.com by hplb.hpl.hp.com; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 12:05:30 GMT Received: by hpustoix.sweden.hp.com (1.38.193.5/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA05094; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 13:07:53 +0100 From: Marie Schroder Message-Id: <9501121207.AA05094@hpustoix.sweden.hp.com> Subject: tidningar och nyheter To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 13:07:52 MET X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.13i] Status: RO Hej Marie d'Alise-Saint-Reine haer....... Jag var precis paa lunch och rakade titta paa loepsedlarna till dagens kveallstidningar som foerkunnade att "svenska kaendisar samlas och dricker blod i en hemlig sekt".... Inter foer att jag har en aaaaaaaaaning om vad nu detta roer sig om men jag kunde inte laata bli att oenska konkurs aat vissa nyhetsmedier! DE SKRIVER VERKLIGEN VAD SOM HELST - bara det kan goeras om till snaskig sensation. ............liten reflektion utan koppling till SCA fraan en sensationstroett Marie From nordmark-request Thu Jan 12 15:02:58 1995 Return-Path: jannis@sth.carta.se Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA18191 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 15:02:58 +0100 From: jannis@sth.carta.se Received: from mail.swip.net (mail.swip.net [192.71.180.65]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA11995 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 15:02:56 +0100 Received: by mail.swip.net with UUCP (8.6.8/3.01) id PAA14293; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 15:04:57 +0100 Message-ID: <199501121404.PAA14293@mail.swip.net> Date: Thur, 12 Jan 1995 14:58 +0100 To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: Regler, insandaren, etc Status: RO FÖRST och FRÄMST!!!! Varför diskutera allt tills det är totalt söndertrasat? Det verkar som en del har svårt att släppa vissa ämnen utan slåss om det sista ordet i oändlighet. Sen... Inlägget om insändaren i Norrländska S. OK, Åke är rent ut sagt asförbannad, och som rollspelare sen 1980, så tenderar jag att hålla med honom. Men varför tar du i så hårt. I mina ögon verkar det som texten måste vara mycket värre än som framgår. Om du har tid, skriv in den, så att vi alla kan läsa vad hon skrivit och ta ställning själva. Annars tycker jag påhoppet verkar något obefogat, då vi andra som inte läst den, vet vad hon sagt. Vi hör endast ena sidan av ett utbyte... Såsom det var skrivet, Petrc Monomachos aka Jannis Koukoutsas >>>>>CITAT>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dagens nummer av Norrländska Socialdemokraten - den största dagstidningen i den här delen av landet - stoltserar på insändarplats med ett stycke svada undertecknad en viss Maria Rehn, ordförande i SCA-kantonen Frostheim. I detta angriper hon med viss glöd det faktum att Nordnytt för två veckor sedan illustrerade ett osakligt angrepp på rollspelshobbyn med några sekunders kämpalek mellan två medlemmar i SCA. Samtidigt kastar hon också en ångande varm bajsloska i ansiktet på alla landets rollspelare. Insändaren bär rubriken "VI SYSSLAR INTE MED ROLLSPEL!" i väl synlig 25-punkters text. Några citat: "Detta gjorde att man kunde uppfatta att medeltidsföreningen sysslar med rollspel samt att medlemmarna är blivande våldsbrottslingar." (SCA:s verksamhet) "bör absolut inte förknippas med sådana ämnen som rollspel och våldsbrott." "Frostheim står inte bakom rasistiska synsätt eller någon form av våldsbrott." >>>>>SLUT CITAT>>>>> From nordmark-request Thu Jan 12 16:25:32 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA18724; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 16:25:30 +0100 Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA12208; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 16:25:29 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA01623; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 16:25:28 +0100 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 16:25:28 +0100 Message-Id: <199501121525.QAA01623@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: xordph@ludd.luth.se CC: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: <199501112259.XAA24355@father.ludd.luth.se> (xordph@ludd.luth.se) Subject: Re: spridande av text From: Status: RO Styrbj|rn: Menar du att det {r naivt att aldrig ha trott att prath|gen {r hemlig? William From nordmark-request Thu Jan 12 16:31:13 1995 Return-Path: mabr@norell.se Received: from mail.swip.net (mail.swip.net [192.71.180.65]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA18776 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 16:31:12 +0100 From: mabr@norell.se Received: by mail.swip.net with UUCP (8.6.8/3.01) id QAA16171; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 16:33:11 +0100 Message-ID: <199501121533.QAA16171@mail.swip.net> Date: Thur, 12 Jan 1995 16:20 +0100 To: NORDMARK@LUDD.LUTH.SE Cc: mabr@norell.se Subject: SV: Re:Frithiof Status: RO ---------- Från: MIME:ERA.ERAAINA@memo4.ericsson.se Till: -: NORDMARK@LUDD.LUTH.SE; morbro Angående: Re:Frithiof Datum: den 11 januari 1995 15.52 <> --- Received from ERA.ERAAINA 08-757 3505 95-01-10 10.51 -> VAX.NORDMARK..LUDD.LUTH.SE..INET -: - - - - - - - - - - > MAIL USER IN VAX AND INTERNET >Hejsan alla på prathoegen! >Apropos Frithiofs inlaegg. Jag beklagar om det uppstaatt miss- >foerstaand tidigare, jag trodde detta var klart foer alla. >Vadaa? >Jo, vi har inte alls naagon frihet att bara aendra lagen hur som >helst naer vi blivit furstemdoeme. Lagaendringar ska alltid god- >kaennas av Deras Kungliga Majestaeter och Drachenwalds drots. Det måste den första Lagen också !!! samt av BoD, ändringar behöver INTE godkännas av BoD...FYI ! >Det finns alltsaa ingen moejlighet att dra igenom furstendooemes- >projektet med en lag som aer taenkt att aendras saa fort vi >blivit godkaenda. Kort sagt - inte en sportmoessa aer jag raedd. FEL FEL ! Det är tvärtom en mycket enkel och bra metod för att få igenom vårt furstendöme inom en rimlig framtid ! >Personligen tycker jag heller inte att det aer ett juste agerande >och det aer inget jag stoeder eller skulle kunna taenka mig att >bedriva. Det är ett bra sätt att slippa problem med petitionen och även för att ge oss möjligheter att påverka från insidan, snarare än att stånga oss blodiga och försena furstendömet. Denna metod har till och med före- slagits av personer som sitter i positioner där detta ärende kommer att handläggas. Varför bränna mer pengar på något som inte kommer att godkännas ens på kungarikes nivå av ämbetsmännen ? Vore det inte bättre att först kontrollera allt noggrant med Kungarikes drotsar och Majestäter INNAN ? >Med vaenliga haelsningar, > Heloise Det finns lösningar, och för mig personligen är det viktigare att Nordmark blir Furstendöme än att vi får igenom idén om förkämpar. Bättre att bli Fursten- döme först, och sedan arbeta för att få en möjlighet att testa systemet med förkämpar under en tid..........men arbeta innefrån. OBS ! Om ni tycker som jag, kryssa för att ni vill ha Furstendöme, men stryk texten som refererar till Lagen och förkämpen ! Tycker ni att förkämpe delen är viktig och hellre avstår från att Nordmark blir Furstendöme, kryssa i blanketten oförändrad. Statistik ====== Vi är drygt 400 personer som prenumererar på Silversparren i Sverige (minst), dessutom finns det cirka 200 SCA-medlemmar. Statistik om överlappning finns inte (enl. info från SKA-styrelsemöte i Måndags), men vi vet att den är ganska vanligt förekommande. MvH M// ==================================================================== SCA : Morgan de Grey mabr @norell.se Mundant : M Broman ==================================================================== From nordmark-request Thu Jan 12 16:39:34 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA18858 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 16:39:33 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA01647; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 16:39:31 +0100 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 16:39:31 +0100 Message-Id: <199501121539.QAA01647@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: Sven.Noren@Kemi.UU.SE CC: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: <199501120749.AA03492@akka.kemi.uu.se> (message from Sven Noren on Thu, 12 Jan 1995 08:49:27 +0100) Subject: Re: lagen From: Status: RO Frithiof, l}t mig f|rtydliga: Tanken var fr}n b|rjan att vi skulle fixa en paketl|sning f|r v}rt furstend|me. Bakom den fanns vissa |nskem}l om att f} en lite annorlunda karakt{r p} Nordmark j{mf|rt med standard- furstend|men i USA. Vi ville minska kronans makt och betydelse f|r att samtidigt minska arbetsinsatsen och kostnaderna f|r regenterna. Vi ville skapa en begr{nsad demokrati, kl{dd i medeltida former. Vi ville |ppna en v{g f|r icke-k{mpar till tronen, }tminstone i teorin. Vi ville ha f{rre krontorneringar och kr|ningar, f|r att undvika den "tron-centrering" som s} ofta f|rekommer i SCA, och i st{llet ha fler torneringar om andra, mindre prestigeladdade saker, fler krig och fler tema- evenemang. L{ngre regeringstider var ocks} ett s{tt att n} |kad stabilitet. Allt detta arbetades in i lagf|rslaget, som vi hoppades att kunna l{gga inf|r BoD tillsammans med en utf|rlig f|rklaring av vad vi |nskade. Vad som nu skett {r att en isolerad del av f|rslaget har lyfts ur sitt sammanhang och lagts inf|r BoD, som d} sl{ngde igen d|rren i ansiktet p} oss innan vi hann s{ga "goddag". Okej, det var f|rbaskat synd. Det b{sta s{ttet att g} vidare med saken just nu tror jag {r att separera fr}gorna. F|rst fixa att vi blir furstend|me, sedan ta upp v}ra s{rskilda |nskem}l. D{rf|r h}ller jag i sak med om att det {r dumt att g} vidare med nuvarande lagf|rslag. Vi borde stoppa hela processen nu, h}lla {nnu ett Ting, skriva om lagen med vaniljsmak och sedan g} in med en separat beg{ran till BoD om att f} vara annorlunda. Men det {r som att dra i n|dbromsen n{r t}get redan har k|rt ut p} isen... William From nordmark-request Thu Jan 12 16:48:59 1995 Return-Path: mabr@norell.se Received: from mail.swip.net (mail.swip.net [192.71.180.65]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA18942 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 16:48:59 +0100 From: mabr@norell.se Received: by mail.swip.net with UUCP (8.6.8/3.01) id QAA20412; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 16:50:58 +0100 Message-ID: <199501121550.QAA20412@mail.swip.net> Date: Thur, 12 Jan 1995 16:40 +0100 To: NORDMARK@LUDD.LUTH.SE Cc: mabr@norell.se Subject: SV: Re: lagen Status: RO ---------- F>Frithiof: F>BODs beslut i den här frågan fanns i den rapport från oktobermötet som F>gjorts offentlig. Dessutom har du William fått direkt besked i den här F>frågan av Drachenwalds ombudsman i ett brev till dig som du själv F>refererat här i detta offentliga forum. Vad är det du begär? W>Jag begär ingenting. Saken är att Nordmark inte har ställt frågan W>till BoD och inte fått något svar från BoD. Rapporten från BoDs W>oktobermöte har inte tillsänts vår drots. Min privata korrespondens W>med en BoD-ombudsman är inte heller något officiellt besked. Anledningen till att Peder ej fått denna information vet jag inte, och eftersom Heloise inte blivit klar som drots förrän runt kröningen så.....??? Dessutom kommer inte all sådan information till lokala drotsar typ baroniella och ned- åt med automatik. Om man är drots och hör om sådana här saker borde det i mitt tycke vara mest naturligt att kontakta kungarikets Drots för att få reda på mer information. W>Naturligtvis kan inte ett furstendömes lag strida mot Corpora. W>Genom att gå in med vår begäran ber vi BoD att fixa så att vi W>får det vi vill ha. Att det strider mot Corpora behöver vi inte W>bry oss om: Vill BoD göra oss till lags kan de ändra Corpora. Suck, här ser vi ett exempel på varför vi har problem.... BoD har redan tidigare fått liknande förfrågningar från andra grupper och svarat nekande. Vi är absolut inte först, om någon händelsevis trodde det. Förändringar av Corporan tar tid. Att som ett litet baroni i utkanten av den kända världen försöka få till förändringar görs INTE genom att bete sig som ett bortskämt barn. Det är mycket effektivare att påverka via lobbying och genom att skickligt manipulera dem som styr genom SAKLIG argumentation...... Vi ville med den här idén prova om det gick att få igenom med nuvarande regler, tyvärr gick inte det....alltså får vi börja arbeta för en förändring av reglerna. Men skall hela Furstendömes tanken sänkas bara för att vi vill "vara unika/annorlunda" ? W>Vi försöker inte bryta mot Corpora. W>William Vad försöker vi göra då ? Förändra hela systemet på en gång ? Om vi vill vara med och leka i SCA så får vi också acceptera att allt inte blir precis som vi vill. Att BoD redan sagt "NEJ till förkämpar" beror på att det funnits folk som haft kontakt med BoD och undersökt saken, dessa har funnit att det här är en gammal fråga som stötts och blötts. Prioritera : Furstendöme idag, fortsatt lobbying, med ett gott rykte som förstående och samarbetsvilliga ELLER Baroni för en lång tid framåt och ett rykte som besvärliga....? Vad väljer du ? Vad tror du gynnar oss=Nordmark mest ? Ciao Morgan// ======================================================================= mabr@norell.se ======================================================================= From nordmark-request Thu Jan 12 16:53:31 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA18996 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 16:53:30 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA01968; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 16:51:38 +0100 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 16:51:38 +0100 Message-Id: <199501121551.QAA01968@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: masc@sweden.hp.com CC: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: <9501121207.AA05094@hpustoix.sweden.hp.com> (message from Marie Schroder on Thu, 12 Jan 1995 13:07:52 MET) Subject: Re: tidningar och nyheter From: Status: RO Dagens Excessen har en artikel om Frimurarna. Det l{r vara s} att en norsk professor som var frimurare, blev kn{pp eller bara f|rbaskat arg, och l{mnade ut en massa hemliga papper till utomst}ende. Resultatet av detta "avsl|jande" har blivit en bok av en norsk forskare. Utifr}n denna bok har Excessen skrivit sin sensationsartikel, som s{kert tillfredst{ller m}nga m{nniskors puerila nyfikenhet. Det finns absolut inget samh{llsintresse i att avsl|ja vad frimurarna har f|r sig vid sina enskilda sammankomster, utan det {r bara bajskastning som Excessen {gnar sig }t. Jag m}r bara illa }t el{ndet. Bl{h! William From nordmark-request Thu Jan 12 17:42:56 1995 Return-Path: <@nomina.lu.se:ralph@astro.lu.se> Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA19319 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 17:42:55 +0100 Received: from nastol.astro.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP (5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA10479; Thu, 12 Jan 95 17:45:33 +0100 Received: by nastol.astro.lu.se(1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA11755; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 17:42:55 +0100 From: Ralph Snel Message-Id: <9501121642.AA11755@nastol.astro.lu.se> Subject: Re: lagen To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 17:42:55 MET Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO I'd just like to point out that BoD one year ago is not the same as the BoD now. There have been (insert your favourite god) knows how many changes of members and chairpersons the last year. Even changes of policy. How old are certain claims here? Is it _written_ in corpora that champion tourneys are a no-go, or is it someone in the BoD who interpreted some law that way? Ralph/Clovis, wondering... From nordmark-request Thu Jan 12 19:11:46 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA19911 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 19:11:45 +0100 Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA12672 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 19:11:44 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA02530; Thu, 12 Jan 1995 19:11:41 +0100 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 19:11:41 +0100 Message-Id: <199501121811.TAA02530@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: mabr@norell.se CC: NORDMARK@ludd.luth.se, mabr@norell.se In-reply-to: <199501121533.QAA16171@mail.swip.net> (mabr@norell.se) Subject: Re: SV: Re:Frithiof From: Status: RO Morgan skrev: >Om ni tycker som jag, kryssa f|r att ni vill ha Furstend|me, men stryk >texten som refererar till Lagen och f|rk{mpen ! Tycker ni att f|rk{mpe >delen {r viktig och hellre avst}r fr}n att Nordmark blir Furstend|me, >kryssa i blanketten of|r{ndrad. D}lig metod, tycker jag. S}dana strykningar kommer n{mligen ofelbart att tolkas som att den underskrivande INTE VILL HA f|rk{mpar alls! Detta {r precis det |nsket{nkande som man verkar {gna sig }t bland amerikanska SCAiter i Drachenwald just nu: man s|ker intala sig att de som var p} Tinget och r|stade f|r v}rt lagf|rslag, inte var representativa f|r Nordmark. Dvs majoriteten vill egentligen ha ett vanligt amerikanskt furstend|me, det {r en liten klick av fanatiker som trumfat igenom de s{rskiljande ideerna... Men s} {r det ju inte. D{rf|r: vill du ha f|rk{mpar, nu eller i framtiden, motverkar du detta syfte om du bara stryker den raden p} blanketten. Tyv{rr ser jag inget bra s{tt att f} den nuvarande pollningen att fungera. Enda s{ttet att }stadkomma ett furstend|me som kan godk{nnas av BoD {r att inkalla ett nytt Ting, skriva om lagen, och sedan g|ra en ny "pollning". William From nordmark-request Fri Jan 13 11:59:07 1995 Return-Path: mabr@norell.se Received: from mail.swip.net (mail.swip.net [192.71.180.65]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA24644 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 1995 11:59:06 +0100 From: mabr@norell.se Received: by mail.swip.net with UUCP (8.6.8/3.01) id MAA20948; Fri, 13 Jan 1995 12:01:07 +0100 Message-ID: <199501131101.MAA20948@mail.swip.net> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 11:50 +0100 To: NORDMARK@LUDD.LUTH.SE Cc: mabr@norell.se Subject: SV: Re: SV: Re:Frithiof Status: RO ---------- Morgan skrev: >Om ni tycker som jag, kryssa för att ni vill ha Furstendöme, men stryk >texten som refererar till Lagen och förkämpen ! Tycker ni att förkämpe >delen är viktig och hellre avstår från att Nordmark blir Furstendöme, >kryssa i blanketten oförändrad. W>Dålig metod, tycker jag. Sådana strykningar kommer nämligen ofelbart W>att tolkas som att den underskrivande INTE VILL HA förkämpar alls! W>Detta är precis det önsketänkande som man verkar ägna sig åt bland W>amerikanska SCAiter i Drachenwald just nu: man söker intala sig att W>de som var på Tinget och röstade för vårt lagförslag, inte var W>representativa för Nordmark. Dvs majoriteten vill egentligen ha W>ett vanligt amerikanskt furstendöme, det är en liten klick av W>fanatiker som trumfat igenom de särskiljande ideerna... W>Men så är det ju inte. Därför: vill du ha förkämpar, nu eller W>i framtiden, motverkar du detta syfte om du bara stryker den W>raden på blanketten. Det är ju bra att William _vet_ hur andra kommer att "tolka" mitt förslag...;) De flesta inblandade _vet_ däremot att förkämpar är något som vi här i Nordmark gärna vill ha. Vad gäller Ralphs fråga om nya/gamla BoD, så har bägge vid det här laget sagt "Nej" till förkämpar, åtminstone enligt den information som finns tillgänglig idag. W>Tyvärr ser jag inget bra sätt att få den nuvarande pollningen W>att fungera. Enda sättet att åstadkomma ett furstendöme som kan W>godkännas av BoD är att inkalla ett nytt Ting, skriva om lagen, W>och sedan göra en ny "pollning". W>William Håller helt med William om detta, verkar i dagsläget vara enda lösningen på problemen. Åtminstone om vi verkligen vill ha vårt furstendöme och det var väl det som var den ursprungliga tanken med hela den här processen eller..? Ciao M// ==================================================================== SCA : Morgan deGrey mabr@norell.se Mundant : M Broman ==================================================================== From nordmark-request Fri Jan 13 14:06:23 1995 Return-Path: xordph@ludd.luth.se Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA25238 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 1995 14:06:22 +0100 From: "L. J|rgen \hman" Received: (xordph@localhost) by father.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA19875 for nordmark; Fri, 13 Jan 1995 14:05:56 +0100 Message-Id: <199501131305.OAA19875@father.ludd.luth.se> Subject: Re: SCA hugger dolkar i ryggar To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 14:05:55 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199501120752.AA01785@amanda2.ies.luth.se> from "Ake Rosenius" at Jan 12, 95 08:52:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2044 Status: RO Svar till ]ke Rosenius. Nu har jag l{st ins{ndaren och den vara ju bra mycket sn{llare {n vad man skulle kunna tro n[r man l{ste ditt inl{gg. ]nd} {r den tillr{ckligt "missriktad" f|r att jag ska bli sur och tvingas s{ga att det som tur {r inte {r Frostheims officiella }sikter utan bara v}r drots Maria's "f|rdommar" som ventileras i ins{ndaren. Jag ska ta upp denna fr}ga med henne n{sta g}ng vi tr{ffas. Att hon bara n|jer sig med att s{ga att vi i frostheim inte {r rollspelare och sen verkar acceptera teorin om att man blir v{ldsbrottsling och dj{vlsdyrkare av att vara rollspelare g|r mig illa ber|rd. Den skara som strtade Frostheim var alla rollspelare och d} k{nns det kontigt att samma f|rening f|rsvarar teorin om rollspelets skadligthet. N{r det enda som vara fel med TV-inslaget ur frostheims syvinkel var att dom inte sa att vi p} bilderna inte hadde n}tt med inslaget att g|ra. Vi SCAre, rollspelare, livare, tolkien s{llskapare mm. m}ste h}lla ihop mot den elaka pressen och den missledda/oupplysta allm{nheten. Vi beh|ver inga interna br}k... Jag ska se till att inga fler grodor hoppar ur frostheims mun. Vad g{ller dina rader : > P.S. > För övrigt anser jag att SCA:s verksamhet är rent bedövande tråkig. Så det så! > Mycket moget p}hopp. :-) /Styrbj|rn, rollspelare sedan 13 }r. (***************************************************************************) (* | *) (* Lord Styrbj|rn Halte | L. J|rgen /hman *) (* Canton of Frostheim | Ludd Computer Club *) (* Barony of Nordmark | University of Lule} *) (* Kingdom of Drachenwald | E-mail: *) (* | xordph@ludd.luth.se *) (* Vert, in pale a | Snail-mail: *) (* crescent inverted | K}rhusv{gen 5 8:806 *) (* and a Thor's | 97754 Lule} *) (* hammer or. | Sweden *) (* | Telephone: *) (* This divide dream and reality -----> | +46-920 11637 *) (* | *) (***************************************************************************) From nordmark-request Fri Jan 13 14:17:30 1995 Return-Path: xordph@ludd.luth.se Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA25308 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 1995 14:17:30 +0100 From: "L. J|rgen \hman" Received: (xordph@localhost) by father.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA20185 for nordmark; Fri, 13 Jan 1995 14:17:03 +0100 Message-Id: <199501131317.OAA20185@father.ludd.luth.se> Subject: Re: spridande av text To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 14:17:02 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199501121525.QAA01623@groucho.csd.uu.se> from "vader@emil.csd.uu.se" at Jan 12, 95 04:25:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1637 Status: RO > > Styrbj|rn: > > Menar du att det {r naivt att aldrig ha trott att prath|gen > {r hemlig? > > William > Nej, om n}n har trott att prath|gen {r hemlig s} var det naivt. Din f|rv}ning |ver att din text fick eget liv och spredes till platser d{r du inte ville att den skulle finnas }ter speglar den brist p} f|rst}else f|r den mystiska och ober{kneliga varelse som kallas internet som m}nga av dess anv{ndare verkar ha. Hur kan du tro att n}tt du postar p} en mailing lista som alla f}r vara med i kan vara hemligt ? Det finns ju inga intagningskrav och dom som {r med har ju inte skrivit p} n}tt avtal om att inte sprida information vidare. Att posta n]tt p} NML {r ju lika |ppet som att s{tta in det i sparren. N{r du sen b|rjade prata om "v}r" prath|g blev jag r{dd. Men jag hoppas att alla som inte hade t{nkt p} vad en mailing lista {r och hur den fungerar har gjort det nu. /Styrbj|rn, N}jd. (***************************************************************************) (* | *) (* Lord Styrbj|rn Halte | L. J|rgen /hman *) (* Canton of Frostheim | Ludd Computer Club *) (* Barony of Nordmark | University of Lule} *) (* Kingdom of Drachenwald | E-mail: *) (* | xordph@ludd.luth.se *) (* Vert, in pale a | Snail-mail: *) (* crescent inverted | K}rhusv{gen 5 8:806 *) (* and a Thor's | 97754 Lule} *) (* hammer or. | Sweden *) (* | Telephone: *) (* This divide dream and reality -----> | +46-920 11637 *) (* | *) (***************************************************************************) From nordmark-request Fri Jan 13 14:22:42 1995 Return-Path: xordph@ludd.luth.se Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA25351 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 1995 14:22:42 +0100 From: "L. J|rgen \hman" Received: (xordph@localhost) by father.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA20388 for nordmark; Fri, 13 Jan 1995 14:22:15 +0100 Message-Id: <199501131322.OAA20388@father.ludd.luth.se> Subject: Runor, snart, standard, ? To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 14:22:15 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3172 Status: RO Hej alla rundiggare ! Jag fick ett sp{nnde brev fr}n en lista. ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 14:55:46 CST Reply-To: ojarnef@admin.kth.se Sender: Text Encoding Initiative public discussion list From: Olle Jarnefors To: Multiple recipients of list TEI-L Are you interested in runes and their possible inclusion into ISO 10646 and Unicode? (I'm talking about the _real_ runes, the early alphabet used by Germanic peoples from about 100 A.D. and displayed on numerous Viking-Age runic stones, not the "runes" of the Plan9 operating system.) I have sent the 27 page draft proposal for a runic extension of 10646, prepared by the ISORUNES project, to the mailing list for public discussion. It includes this abstract: Abstract: This proposal is about inclusion of the runic script in ISO/IEC 10646, the Universal Multiple-Octet Coded Character Set, and thereby in Unicode. It covers the runic script throughout its history and over its entire area of distribution. Two alternatives are given, one implying the addition of 141 characters, the other the addition of 97 characters. The proposal has been prepared by an international team of runic scholars in the project ISORUNES, sponsored by the Nordic Cultural Fund and the Nordic Council of Ministers. Anyone interested can copy it by anonymous FTP from othello.admin.kth.se in directory pub/misc/ojarnef/isorunes as the file iso-runes-proposal.txta At the same place you will also find GIF image files showing the actual shapes of the runic characters. If you don't have FTP access to Internet, you can send an email to listserv@JHUVM.HCF.JHU.EDU containing the line get iso10646 log9501 in the message body. It's not important what's written on the Subject: line. You will then get a copy of the January 1995 log file for the ISO10646 mailing list sent to you by email. This file currently contains three messages, of which the "runes in ISO 10646" proposal is the last (but it will grow during this month). /Olle -- Olle Jarnefors, Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm ------------------------------------------------ Kul att se att Nordiska r]det g|r n}tt vettigt med sina pengar. /Styrbj|rn, n{tsurfare (***************************************************************************) (* | *) (* Lord Styrbj|rn Halte | L. J|rgen /hman *) (* Canton of Frostheim | Ludd Computer Club *) (* Barony of Nordmark | University of Lule} *) (* Kingdom of Drachenwald | E-mail: *) (* | xordph@ludd.luth.se *) (* Vert, in pale a | Snail-mail: *) (* crescent inverted | K}rhusv{gen 5 8:806 *) (* and a Thor's | 97754 Lule} *) (* hammer or. | Sweden *) (* | Telephone: *) (* This divide dream and reality -----> | +46-920 11637 *) (* | *) (***************************************************************************) From nordmark-request Fri Jan 13 15:05:25 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA25748; Fri, 13 Jan 1995 15:05:24 +0100 Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA15480; Fri, 13 Jan 1995 15:05:22 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA07255; Fri, 13 Jan 1995 15:05:21 +0100 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 15:05:21 +0100 Message-Id: <199501131405.PAA07255@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: xordph@ludd.luth.se CC: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: <199501131305.OAA19875@father.ludd.luth.se> (xordph@ludd.luth.se) Subject: Re: SCA hugger dolkar i ryggar From: Status: RO Jag k{nner att jag m}ste h}lla med Styrbj|rn om att det {r *bra* om vi som sysslar med historia och fantasy st|der och hj{lper varandra. G}rdagens angrepp i Excessen och TV2 mot Frimurare- orden visar att det finns en massiv tr{skallighet i Sverige n{r det g{ller kulturyttringar som inte st{mmer med det man f}r l{ra sig p} ABF... Vi {r alla m}ltavlor f|r den h{r formen av paranoia, vare sig vi {r tolkienister, SCAiter, rollspelare eller medlemmar i n}got slutet ordenss{llskap. Kl{r man ut sig {r man pervers. Har man hemligheter {r man en maktkonspiration. Anv{nder man symboler {r man antingen barnslig eller satanist. Leker man med sv{rd och rustningar {r man terrorist eller gatu- huligan, potentiell m|rdare... Och s} vidare. L}t oss st|dja varandra s} l}ngt det g}r! William From nordmark-request Fri Jan 13 15:09:20 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA25774; Fri, 13 Jan 1995 15:09:19 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA07265; Fri, 13 Jan 1995 15:09:18 +0100 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 15:09:18 +0100 Message-Id: <199501131409.PAA07265@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: xordph@ludd.luth.se CC: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: <199501131317.OAA20185@father.ludd.luth.se> (xordph@ludd.luth.se) Subject: Re: spridande av text From: Status: RO Styrbj|rn skrev: >Hur kan du tro att n}tt du postar p} en mailing lista som alla f}r vara med >i kan vara hemligt ? Har du kn{ck i |gonen? Jag skrev ju just att jag aldrig har trott att prath|gen var hemlig. Dessutom har jag kommenterat den h{r fr}gan *synnerligen utf|rligt* i tidigare inl{gg, jag f|rst}r inte varf|r du tar upp den nu igen n{r den redan {r slutbehandlad. Har du n}got s{rskilt behov av att utgjuta dina k{nslor om saken, eller vad {r det fr}ga om? William From nordmark-request Fri Jan 13 15:12:15 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA25812; Fri, 13 Jan 1995 15:12:13 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA07272; Fri, 13 Jan 1995 15:12:12 +0100 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 15:12:12 +0100 Message-Id: <199501131412.PAA07272@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: xordph@ludd.luth.se CC: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: <199501131322.OAA20388@father.ludd.luth.se> (xordph@ludd.luth.se) Subject: Re: Runor, snart, standard, ? From: Status: RO Olle Jarnefors skrev om runor: "the early alphabet used by Germanic peoples..." N{r det g{ller runor borde det v{l heta "the early futhark..." :-) William (leg. besserwisser) From nordmark-request Fri Jan 13 18:28:53 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA27243 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 1995 18:28:52 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA08328; Fri, 13 Jan 1995 18:28:50 +0100 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 18:28:50 +0100 Message-Id: <199501131728.SAA08328@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: [100040.134@compuserve.com: Letter to Silversparren] From: Status: RO Date: 12 Jan 95 19:39:39 EST From: Martin & Mary Hickey <100040.134@compuserve.com> To: Timoch & Adelicia <75664.2606@compuserve.com>, Morgan and Annette , AINA , "]ke Eldberg" , Leif Euren , Robert Hedstrom , Justin <100023.1253@compuserve.com>, Matt Larsen , Cheryl Moore <100125.3252@compuserve.com>, Morgan , Sven Norin , "Prothell (Ove Aberg)" , Christer Romson , Marie Schroeder , Ralph Snel Subject: Letter to Silversparren Greetings all! Here is a letter I plan to have in the upcoming Silversparren, but since I'd like the "word on the street" as soon as possible I'm sending this out on the wire early. Feel free to distribute it IN ITS ENTIRITY to other members of the Nordmark populace. Please refer all questions regarding the content to me directly. Thanks! Maire ************************************************************************* Unto the good gentles of Nordmark does Maire, as Kingdom Seneschale of Drachenwald, give her fondest greetings. It has become quite clear recently that there is some confusion about the status of the Nordmark Principality Project, the proposed Principality Laws, and the full spectrum of choices available to you as residents of Nordmark and as SCA members. Since I was not able to appear at the October Ting , I hope that this letter will serve to inform you. I received a draft copy of the Principality petition packet, including the proposed Principality laws in June 1994. I reviewed the package, particularly the laws and sent a commentary to the Law Committee in August. I made a number of observations to help improve the wording of certain laws, clear up questions I had, and to keep the laws compatible with Drachenwald Law as well as Corpora. However there are three LARGE issues which need to be addressed for the laws to be ready for submission. They are: 1.)Language of the Laws-- In cases of doubt, the English version of the Principality Laws must take precedence, not Swedish as stated in the proposed Principality laws. Now, I know this is a hot issue with some of the Nordmark populace. The purpose of this change is NOT to imply that the English language is inherently superior to Swedish. Nor is the purpose to say "We're an American club so you HAVE to speak English." It is, rather, a matter of practicality. When there is a problem with the interpretation of Principality laws, it involves the Drachenwald Officers and Royalty. Drachenwald is international--our officers and royalty may be Swedish, or German, or French, or British, or some other nationality not yet part of Drachenwald. The only practical default language is English (unless we make a law for everyone to brush up on their Esperanto). The people who would finally approve your petition package (the Board) are American and Canadian. They cannot review the laws if they are in Swedish. Practicality dictates, then, that an English translation accompany the Principality petition package. The Principality laws within Nordmark boundaries can, and should, be in Swedish so that the populace can read and understand them. When these laws are examined by people outside of Nordmark (and when there is a question about interpretation it always goes up to at LEAST Kingdom level), they need to be in English. 2.) The Ting--As the proposed Principality laws read now, the Prince and Princess have no power to make law. This power is reserved for the Ting. As a Principality, Drachenwald used to have laws similar to this and HAD to change them because they are expressly forbidden by the Corpora (Corpora VI.A.1.g.1.--for those of you who like to read that sort of thing). The SCA hierarchy is based (albeit loosely at times) upon a monarchy where the Crown's word is law. It is not a democracy. This is one of the oldest traditions in the Society. A change of this magnitude is like suddenly allowing Swedish football players to use their hands during the World Cup. The Ting should continue to exist as a forum for the populace to communicate their opinions to the Prince and Princess as well as Principality Officers. They can suggest, recommend, advise, but the Ting cannot compel. In a practical sense, it is a foolhardy monarch indeed who acts in opposition to overwhelming popular opposition. The checks and balances to protect the needs of the populace are already in place and have worked for almost thirty years. 3.) Championship--The proposed Principality laws contain several laws about championship--allowing a fighter (a champion) to fight for a non-combatant couple so that they may reign as Prince and Princess. This was a more complex issue since Drachenwald Law and Corpora strongly imply that championing a non-combatant couple is not compatible with SCA tradition. Both Drachenwald law and the Corpora state that a competitor in a Crown or Coronet list may fight for ONE other person (the consort). I asked my superior, Duchess Sedalia, to review my interpretation of law on this issue. She, in turn, presented the idea to the Board. After thought and discussion, the answer was "No, the idea of championing a non-combatant couple does not fit in with the traditions and customs of the SCA." This decision upheld Duchess Sedalia's interpretation as well as my own. This is not a "because-we-say-so" answer. Championship of this type has been brought up before in the SCA. Groups have split away (and come back) over it. I personally have been in a group which split from the SCA and allowed for non-combatant couples to use champions to gain the throne. I have seen it dangerously abused. There is room for abuse in our current system--this type of championship increases the potential for misuse exponentially. Other than these three issues I had more commentary on the laws. If you'd like to read these in total, please contact the Nordmark Chronicler. So where does that leave the Principality project? As an agent of Drachenwald and the SCA I cannot sign the proposed laws because they are in conflict with Kingdom Law and Corpora. The Royalty cannot recommend the petition for the same reason. The Society Seneschale cannot endorse the petition for the same reasons I cannot. The Board will not entertain the petition package without the recommendations of the Kingdom Seneschale, the Crown, or the Society Seneschale. So the Principality Project cannot progress from this point unless the proposed Principality laws are changed as I have noted above. Some persons have insisted that the Corpora be changed to allow an exception for Nordmark on these three issues. A change in Corpora makes a fundamental change in how the SCA is played EVERYWHERE. It effects 25,000 members in Australia, Canada, America, and Europe--not just Sweden. When reviewing such proposed changes, the Board members must ask themselves "Do these ideas benefit everyone in the SCA?" Other persons have suggested that an exception be made for Nordmark on these issues. If every geographical, cultural and socio-economic population in the SCA wanted "exceptions" just for them, there would be no more Society. We'd have, at best, loosely affiliated clubs who could not really play together because they did not have enough rules in common. I was told that "All of Nordmark would rather NOT go Principality than change these three issues in the proposed Principality laws". Frankly, I did not believe that then and I do not believe it now. I said that I needed proof and that is what probably prompted the ballots in January. I was prevented from reviewing these ballots before they were sent out. When I read one, quite by chance, I was disturbed to find the questions very misleading. The full range of choices were not explained to the populace in enough detail to allow for an informed decision. Therefore, in the interest of fairness and accuracy, I have declared this polling null and void. The statistics from this polling will not be used in the Principality petition package. So what are the choices? Here they are: 1.) Change the proposed laws to be compatible with Drachenwald Law and Corpora and then proceed with the Principality petition as originally planned. 2.) Don't change the proposed laws, submit the Principality petition. But be aware that it will NOT be signed by the Kingdom Seneschale or the Crown. As a matter of course the Society Seneschale and the Board will be informed. The Principality project will fail. Without a Principality, there are no laws. A lot of work for no result. 3.) Separate the proposed Corpora changes from the Principality project altogether. Change the proposed Principality laws to be compatible with Corpora and Drachenwald Law, proceed as planned. Meanwhile use a more efficient method to effect change at the Corporate level. Be aware that these proposed changes have already been reviewed and turned down once. Corpora changes of this magnitude may take YEARS, IF they happen at all. Separating the two projects would give the Corpora changes a better chance of success (and it is still a VERY SLIM chance in my opinion) and the Principality project will not be slowed down. 4.) Forget the whole thing, stay a Barony or look for a totally new solution. You may ask "Maire, this is all news to me. Why didn't you tell us all this before?" Well, I thought I had. I spoke to three persons involved with the Principality project several times over the last calendar year about these things. Everything in this note and more besides was shared with them. I assumed that they had shared all these things with you, the populace of Nordmark. Part of the test to determine whather a branch is ready for elevation from Barony to Principality is to see if it can handle the petition process on its own. So now it is time for the people of Nordmark to make some tough decisions. I cannot make these decisions for you. The responsibility for your future lies with you. The purpose of this letter is to give you the information you need to assess ALL the choices open to you. YOU must take control of this Principality process. I hope that you find some useful information in my words. I remain, in service, Maire From nordmark-request Fri Jan 13 18:36:39 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA27342 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 1995 18:36:38 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA08424; Fri, 13 Jan 1995 18:36:37 +0100 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 18:36:37 +0100 Message-Id: <199501131736.SAA08424@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: <950113003939_100040.134_EHK54-3@CompuServe.COM> (message from Martin & Mary Hickey on 12 Jan 95 19:39:39 EST) Subject: Re: Letter to Silversparren From: Status: RO William p} prath|gen (redo att trampa i alla tillg{ngliga klaver...) N}gra kommentarer till Maires meddelande. Jag skriver detta p} svenska eftersom jag fr{mst vill att vi ska diskutera det h{r p} Prath|gen; det h{r {r allts} inget svar till Maire. Min uppfattning {r att vi inte beh|ver f|ra en diskussion med/mot henne, utan att vi kan fundera oss emellan |ver de besked hon givit. Skulle n}gon tycka att hon b|r f} del av det jag skriver h{r, st}r det vederb|rande fritt att |vers{tta texten och skicka den till henne. Allts}, till saken: Mellan raderna lyser det fram att Maire personligen starkt ogillar de reformer vi har beg{rt; hon tillh|r f.|. enligt egen utsaga dem som tycker att det nu r}dande systemet {r b{st och b|r g{lla |verallt. Utifr}n detta b|r man f|rst} hennes kommentarer om grupper som g}tt ur SCA och }terv{nt, miss- lyckats med f|rk{mpe-system, och p}st}endet att utrymmet f|r missbruk |kar "exponentiellt" med ett s}dant system. Allt detta {r att h{nf|ra till hennes personliga }sikter, inte till fakta i m}let. N}gra detaljer: 1. Spr}kfr}gan som hon talar om {r redan l|st i det f|religgande lagf|rslaget. Paragrafen om att den svenska versionen g{ller |ver den engelska, har strukits. Fr}gan {r allts} |verspelad. Detta har Maire blivit informerad om, s} jag vet inte varf|r hon tar upp det -- kanske en lapsus i minnet? 2. Om lagen ska ge fursteparet ensamr{tt p} lagstiftning, kommer vi att bli tvungna att {nnu mer noga {n nu g|ra boskillnad mellan SKA (stadga) och SCA (furstlig lag), eftersom det {r ett absolut oeftergivligt krav att med- lemmarna har den yttersta kontrollen |ver v}r f|rening, dess pengar, avgifter och andra v{rldsliga ting. 3. Maire n{mner tv} uppfattningar hon h|rt fr}n Nordmark: a. Somliga vill att Corpora ska {ndras f|r hela SCA. Detta f|rkastar Maire eftersom lilla Nordmark knappast kan vara tongivande f|r hela s{llskapet. Till (a) kan s{gas att det f|rvisso {r sant att Corpora inte kan skrivas enbart utifr}n Nordmarks |nskem}l. Men vi vet ocks} att en beg{ran om reformer p} de h{r punkterna har ett utbrett st|d {ven i USA. Det h{r {r fr}gor som diskuterats l{nge, men d{r det inte blir n}gra framsteg s} l{nge reformv{nnerna st}r med hatten i hand och bugar inf|r varje beslut av en styrelse som inte {r demokratiskt vald och som till stor del best}r av gamla hertigar och hertiginnor... En opinionsyttring fr}n en avdelning med bort}t 700 aktiva kan allts} inte g|ra n}gon skada om vi vill ha reformer p} l}ng sikt. Sedan {r det en annan sak att PETITIONEN inte {r r{tta s{ttet att framst{lla en s}dan beg{ran. b. Somliga vill ha ett undantag bara f|r oss. Detta f|rkastar Maire med h{nvisning till att om alla minoriteter f}r undantag s} blir det inget kvar av SCA. Vad g{ller (b) tycker jag att hon drar felaktiga slutsatser. Vi har tidigare r}kat ut f|r samma attityd fr}n en del andra amerikaner. De VILL INTE FATTA att skillnaden USA - Europa {r n}got annat (och b|r behandlas annorlunda) {n skillnaderna mellan olika amerikanska delstater eller skillnaderna mellan negerkvarteret och det judiska kvarteret i Pittsburgh. Dessutom {r de undantag som vi har beg{rt MYCKET SM] om man ser till de praktiska konsekvenserna. Inget av detta p}verkar n}gon annan grupp eller v}r "kompatibilitet" vid evenemang utanf|r Nordmark. Det stenh}rda motst}nd man ibland m|ter n{r man vill reformera regentsystemet, {r till 95 procent emotionellt grundat; f|r somliga {r "fight to rule" en dogm. Om huvudsaken: Ser man till vad Maire s{ger om sj{lva saken s} hon r{tt, allts}: den nuvarande petitionen kommer inte att godk{nnas av SCA. Av de handlingsalternativ hon f|resl}r {r (3) helt klart det vettigaste, tycker jag. Som det nu {r, tycker jag att alla b|r skriva under och skicka in petitionen TROTS detta. [ven om de h{r papperen aldrig g}r in till BoD i form av en petition, {r en underskrift ett st|d f|r den opinion f|r reformer som vi tror finns i Nordmark. DETTA [R VIKTIGT. Vill vi ha reformer, s} f}r vi aldrig sv{va p} m}let! Tv{rtom m}ste vi s{ga det s} ofta och s} tydligt som m|jligt. [ven om den nuvarande petitionen {r d|md att bli verkningsl|s, har det sitt eget v{rde om det finns papper hos drotsen som bevisar att en stor majoritet av medlemmarna st|der Tingets f|rslag. Finns inte dessa, riskerar vi att reformstr{vandena viftas bort som "icke representativa f|r Nordmark". N{sta steg blir att inkalla ett Ting och besluta hur vi ska g} vidare. En omskrivning och "laglig" petition {r f|rst}s det enklaste alternativet. F|r att komplicera allting vill jag testa ett annat alternativ: Vi kan ans|ka om att f} bli ett "Palatine Barony". Om jag {r r{tt informerad inneb{r detta ett baroni d{r man byter baron med j{mna mellanrum, precis som man byter furste i furstend|men. Men till skillnad fr}n kunga- och furstend|men finns det inga regler om HUR "tronf|ljaren" ska utses. Man kan allts} anv{nda precis vilken metod man vill. Som "Palatine Barony" kan vi d{rf|r till{mpa det lagf|rslag som nu ligger (fast det inte formellt f}r st{llning som lag i SCA utan betraktas som riktlinjer). Vi kan allts} ha ett Ting som beslutar om v}ra interna regler, och f|rk{mpetorneringar f|r att utse ny baron. Efter att vi till{mpat dessa regler i ett par }r, kan vi komma tillbaka till BoD och s{ga "Titta h{r! Vi har nu till{mpat de h{r reglerna i tv} }r utan att n}gra katastrofer har intr{ffat. Det fungerar utm{rkt i Baroniet Nordmark -- d{rf|r kommer det ocks} att fungera utm{rkt i Furstend|met Nordmark." Vad tyx? Hej och h} med m{ster William From nordmark-request Sat Jan 14 16:35:57 1995 Return-Path: bubba@ludd.luth.se Received: from data.ludd.luth.se (data.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.42]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA04954 for ; Sat, 14 Jan 1995 16:35:57 +0100 From: "U.J|rgen \hman" Received: (bubba@localhost) by data.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA02130 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se; Sat, 14 Jan 1995 16:35:49 +0100 Message-Id: <199501141535.QAA02130@data.ludd.luth.se> Subject: Re: Letter....osv.. To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se (sca) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 1995 16:35:47 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2065 Status: RO Salve allihopsens, Ulf h{r... Wiliam skrev om lagstiftning.... citat.... 2. Om lagen ska ge fursteparet ensamr{tt p} lagstiftning, kommer vi att bli tvungna att {nnu mer noga {n nu g|ra boskillnad mellan SKA (stadga) och SCA (furstlig lag), eftersom det {r ett absolut oeftergivligt krav att med- lemmarna har den yttersta kontrollen |ver v}r f|rening, dess pengar, avgifter och andra v{rldsliga ting. ...slut citat [r det reglerat i Svensk lag hur en f|rening som SKA skall fungera och hur och var makten finns och {r f|rdelad??? Anledningen till att jag fr}gar {r att om Svensk lag reglerar detta s} kan SCA och BoD stoppa upp ensamr{tten d{r bak eftersom svensk lag kommer f|rst d} det g{ller hur Nordmark kan/f}r leka. Aprop} {ndringar i Corpora s} beh|ver Norcmark inte jobba f|r en {ndring...[ndringar ses ofta som ett hot... Jag tror att ett till{gg till corpora skulle fungera b{ttre. T.ex. att varje furstend|me f}r best{mma om f|rk{mpar skall f} f|rekomma i f-d|met. Hur som helst.....Drachenwald har ju iofs v{ldigt m}nga Amerikaner som inv}nare, det kanske betyder att Nordmark m}ste b|rja och peka p} den faktiska skillnaden i traditioner och v{rderingar mellan v}ra respektive nationer. Iden med Nordmark som palatint baroni l}ter ju bra...men har det verkligen inte existerat n}gra s}dana eller kanske t.o.m. existerar. Hur fungerar de?? Kommer BoD och resten att bry sig om att Nordmark fungerar som Pal. Baroni?? De kommer f|rmodligen att s{ga..."Duttit Nordmark.... ni fungerar bra som Pal.Baroni men ni komer inte att funka som F-d|me. ....eller???? Ulf / pessimistisk eller realistisk....v{lj sj{lv. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Ulf Mj|dtunga(Mjoedtunga, Meadtongue) *Canton of Frostheim *(where frogs live NOT) Vert, in pale a crescent inverted *Barony of Nordmark and a Thor's hammer argent. *Kingdom of Drachenwald bubba@ludd.luth.se -=- U.J|rgen \hman -=- U.Joergen Oehman(NHL-Spelling) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From nordmark-request Sat Jan 14 23:41:44 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA06163; Sat, 14 Jan 1995 23:41:43 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id XAA13187; Sat, 14 Jan 1995 23:41:42 +0100 Date: Sat, 14 Jan 1995 23:41:42 +0100 Message-Id: <199501142241.XAA13187@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: bubba@ludd.luth.se CC: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: <199501141535.QAA02130@data.ludd.luth.se> (bubba@ludd.luth.se) Subject: Re: Letter....osv.. From: Status: RO William h{r. Jag vet inte vad svensk lag s{ger om enskilda f|reningar. Gissar att det inte finns n}got lagtv}ng p} demokrati. N{r jag skrev att det {r ett oeftergivligt krav att medlemmarna har den yttersta kontrollen, menade jag inte utifr}n svensk lag utan f|r oss alla. Jag {r f|r min del inte beredd att l}ta en furste, vilkens enda merit f|r sin uppgift {r att han d{ngt n}n i skallen med en pinne, best{mma |ver alla de pengar som Nordmarks folk samlat in under 10 }r. Palatin-baronier finns p} Hawaii och i Japan. Din pessimism kan vara v{lgrundad: motst}ndet mot {ndringar i "k{mpa-f|r-att-regera"-systemet {r inte rationellt utan k{nslo- m{ssigt. Det finns stor risk att {ven 110-procentiga bevis f|r att ett annat system fungerar lika bra eller b{ttre, f|rkastas. William From nordmark-request Mon Jan 16 09:29:09 1995 Return-Path: leeu@celsiustech.se Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA15955 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 09:29:08 +0100 Received: from world.celsiustech.se (world.celsiustech.se [139.58.1.3]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA24238 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 09:29:06 +0100 Received: (leeu@localhost) by world.celsiustech.se (8.6.9/8.6.4) id JAA19916 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 09:28:48 +0100 From: Leif Euren Message-Id: <199501160828.JAA19916@world.celsiustech.se> Subject: Re: Letter... To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se (Nordmark Mailing List (Prath|gen)) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 09:28:43 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 992 Status: RO William: > Jag vet inte vad svensk lag s{ger om enskilda f|reningar. Gissar att > det inte finns n}got lagtv}ng p} demokrati. Detta {r n}got jag kollat upp under min tid som drots/ordf|rande. Skatteverket har givit ut en mycket bra bok om och f|r f|reningar och i den f}r man reda p} att: F|r att en f|rening ska kunna vara en juridisk person (|ppna bankkonton), kr{vs att den har stadgar som inte {r hemliga. F|r att slippa skatt p} "vinsten" (}rets resultat) m}ste man vara en ideell f|reing (ha ett syfte, som ska st} i stadgan, och som {r skilt fr}n att ge ekonomiska f|rdelar }t n}gon), med }rsm|te dit alla medlemmar {r stadgeenligt kallade (och har r|str{tt enligt stadgan), och d{r sedan det g}gna }rets bokslut och verksamhetsber{ttelse f|redras och d{r m|tet beslutar och styrelsen kan beviljas ansvarsfrihet f|r det g}gna }ret. T_ex beh|ver inte styrelsen vara "demokratiskt" vald, men den yttersta makten |ven f|reningen ska finnas hos medlemmarna. /Peder From nordmark-request Mon Jan 16 09:33:22 1995 Return-Path: leeu@celsiustech.se Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA15987 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 09:33:21 +0100 Received: from world.celsiustech.se (world.celsiustech.se [139.58.1.3]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA24253 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 09:33:17 +0100 Received: (leeu@localhost) by world.celsiustech.se (8.6.9/8.6.4) id JAA20036 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 09:33:08 +0100 From: Leif Euren Message-Id: <199501160833.JAA20036@world.celsiustech.se> Subject: Re: Letter... To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se (Nordmark Mailing List (Prath|gen)) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 09:33:06 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 253 Status: RO Jag tycker det verkar som om Board of Directors (och kanske {ven Maire) vill framst} som goda och v{lvilliga styresm{n, som inte f|rv{rgrar oss n}got. D{rf|r f}r vi heller inte be om n}got de skulle k{nna sig tvugna att v{gra oss. /Peder (f|rbannad!) From nordmark-request Mon Jan 16 09:53:49 1995 Return-Path: frithiof@akka.kemi.uu.se Received: from akka.kemi.uu.se (akka.kemi.uu.se [130.238.66.10]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA16163 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 09:53:17 +0100 Received: by akka.kemi.uu.se id AA00467 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Mon, 16 Jan 1995 09:50:39 +0100 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 09:50:39 +0100 From: Sven Noren Message-Id: <199501160850.AA00467@akka.kemi.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: Runor.... Status: RO Olle Jarnefors skrev om "the early alphabet used by germanic peoples from AD 100 on.... and displayed on viking runestones.." (Ungef{rligt citat, jag har inte brevet framme) H{r {r v{l en hake att runraden som vikingarna anv{nde p} sina stenar inte {r densamma som anv{ndes av germanfolken AD100. Det gjordes en stavningsreform i sverige omkring 500-800, d} man skar ner runraden fr}n 24 till 16 runor. Dessutom {ndrade man ljudv{rdena p} en del av runorna. Det m}ste in }tminstone tv} futharker i standarden allts}. Frithiof, besservissrare From nordmark-request Mon Jan 16 10:07:51 1995 Return-Path: leeu@celsiustech.se Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA16233 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 10:07:51 +0100 Received: from world.celsiustech.se (world.celsiustech.se [139.58.1.3]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA24339 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 10:07:49 +0100 Received: (leeu@localhost) by world.celsiustech.se (8.6.9/8.6.4) id KAA20992 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 10:07:40 +0100 From: Leif Euren Message-Id: <199501160907.KAA20992@world.celsiustech.se> Subject: Runor.... To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se (Nordmark Mailing List (Prath|gen)) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 10:07:38 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 373 Status: RO > H{r {r v{l en hake att runraden som vikingarna anv{nde p} sina stenar > inte {r densamma som anv{ndes av germanfolken AD100. : > Det m}ste in }tminstone tv} futharker i standarden allts}. Genom att h{mta hem f|rslaget till standard och l{sa det, har jag sett att det inneh}ller 5 olika run-rader och c:a 200 tecken. /Peder, grundlig (m}ste bero p} min h{rstamning :-) From nordmark-request Mon Jan 16 10:36:17 1995 Return-Path: marianne.demaret@ped.gu.se Received: from urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (clusternode3 [127.0.0.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA16336 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 10:36:17 +0100 Received: from ped.gu.se (hands.ped.gu.se [130.241.100.2]) by urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA24436 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 10:36:15 +0100 Message-Id: <199501160936.KAA24436@urgoriyf.ludd.luth.se> Received: from [130.241.106.4] (asp004.asp.gu.se) by ped.gu.se with SMTP (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA147838948; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 10:35:48 +0100 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 10:35:48 +0100 X-Sender: pedmarid@ped.gu.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: Leif Euren From: marianne.demaret@ped.gu.se (Marianne Demaret) Subject: Re: Letter... Cc: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Status: RO Hejsan allihop Peder skrev: >Skatteverket har givit ut en mycket bra bok om och f=F6r f=F6reningar >och i den f=E5r man reda p=E5 att: > > F=F6r att en f=F6rening ska kunna vara en juridisk person (=F6ppna > bankkonton), kr=E4vs att den har stadgar som inte =E4r hemliga. F=F6r at= t > slippa skatt p=E5 "vinsten" (=E5rets resultat) m=E5ste man vara en ideell > f=F6reing (ha ett syfte, som ska st=E5 i stadgan, och som =E4r skilt fr= =E5n > att ge ekonomiska f=F6rdelar =E5t n=E5gon), med =E5rsm=F6te dit alla medl= emmar > =E4r stadgeenligt kallade (och har r=F6str=E4tt enligt stadgan), och d=E4= r > sedan det g=E5gna =E5rets bokslut och verksamhetsber=E4ttelse f=F6redras = och > d=E4r m=F6tet beslutar och styrelsen kan beviljas ansvarsfrihet f=F6r det > g=E5gna =E5ret. Vad jag f=F6rst=E5r s=E5 st=E5r det inte i Svens Lag att vi m=E5ste g=F6ra= s=E5h=E4r men vi kan inte ha ett postgirokonto, eller bankkonto och vi skulle f=E5 skatta f= =F6r vinsten om vi inte g=F6r enligt g=E4llande regler fr=E5n Skatteverket. Har n=E5gon alls informerat Marie (Mary Hickey) om detta? Det =E4r ju v=E4ld= igt fina argument f=F6r att det inte g=E5r att strikt till=E4mpa g=E4llande= SCA-lagar i Sverige utan dessa konsekvenser. Dessutom =E4r det inte v=E5rat fel att det = =E4r s=E5, vi =E4r inte bara "dumma och envisa", utan vi f=F6rs=F6ker p=E5 ett sm= idigt s=E4tt l=F6sa problemet med olika regler i olika l=E4nder. Har vi funderat p=E5 hur vi skall l=F6sa problemet, =E4r det meningen att v= i skall forts=E4tta att "inte l=E5tsas om" att vi egentligen redan har ett svenskt SCA med egna stadgar, som m=E5ste komma i f=F6rsta hand om vi skall f=F6lja Skatteverklets regeler, och ha en separat f=F6rening som enbart hanterar ekonomin. Eller skall vi informera Amerikanarna om hur vi har det med risk att det blir en massa strul, men kanske med hopp om att vi f=E5r den svenska f=F6reningen officiellt erk=E4nd som en del av SCA till slut? Eller skulle det kunna (miss)uppfattas som att vi redan har en egen "corporation" ? Jag kan mycket v=E4l ha missuppfattat en hel del i mina antaganden h=E4r, s= =E5 r=E4tta mig g=E4rna! Vad tycker ni om detta? H=E4lsningar Estridh (Marianne Demaret) Marianne =C5sblom Demaret Avdelningen f=F6r spr=E5kpedagogik Box 1010 431 26 M=D6LNDAL SWEDEN E-mail: marianne.demaret@ped.gu.se PHONE AT WORK: +46-31 773 24 42 =46AX: +46-31 773 23 80 HOME NUMBER: +46-31 30 46 99 From nordmark-request Mon Jan 16 10:57:24 1995 Return-Path: <@nomina.lu.se:ralph@astro.lu.se> Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA16419 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 10:57:23 +0100 Received: from nastol.astro.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP (5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA11702; Mon, 16 Jan 95 11:00:07 +0100 Received: by nastol.astro.lu.se(1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA00185; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 10:57:23 +0100 From: Ralph Snel Message-Id: <9501160957.AA00185@nastol.astro.lu.se> Subject: Re: Letter... To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 10:57:22 MET Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Estridh skrev: > Eller skall vi informera Amerikanarna om hur vi har det med risk att det > blir en massa strul, men kanske med hopp om att vi f=E5r den svenska > f=F6reningen officiellt erk=E4nd som en del av SCA till slut? > Eller skulle det kunna (miss)uppfattas som att vi redan har en egen > "corporation" ? Ja. When we started our own equivalent of the SKA in Holland we went through all the trouble that Nordmark went through. The only difference was that we had a lot of americans in our group when we started, so they were ready to point out al the small problems. Eventually we came up with a construction that turned out to work very well. The problem was that the americans outside of Holland didn't understand it, and some of them completely misinterpreted it as if we refused to play by the SCA rules, and had started our own society. The same thing _will_ happen in this case too. Nothing to worry about, just a fact. As long as the important people, like seneschals and board members and such, know how things are arranged. Ralph/Clodwik From nordmark-request Mon Jan 16 14:28:32 1995 Return-Path: masc@sweden.hp.com Received: from hplb.hpl.hp.com (hplb.hpl.hp.com [15.255.59.2]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA17699 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 14:28:23 +0100 Received: from hpustoix.sweden.hp.com by hplb.hpl.hp.com; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 13:25:30 GMT Received: by hpustoix.sweden.hp.com (1.38.193.5/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA02113; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 14:27:58 +0100 From: Marie Schroder Message-Id: <9501161327.AA02113@hpustoix.sweden.hp.com> Subject: i tidningen To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 14:27:57 MET X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.13i] Status: RO Hej hopp Marie haer. Det aer haart att vara beroemda. Nu aer vi i tidningen igen. Den haer gaangen helt utan text minsann! DN Stockholm sidan 6 foer er nyfikna. Gilliam och Harabanar slaar paa varandra. Marie From nordmark-request Mon Jan 16 14:39:44 1995 Return-Path: annika@sics.se Received: from sics.se (sics.se [192.16.123.90]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA17946 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 14:39:43 +0100 Received: from edjo.sics.se by sics.se (5.65+bind 1.7+ida 1.4.2/SICS-1.4) with SMTP id AA00256; Mon, 16 Jan 95 14:39:31 +0100 Message-Id: <9501161339.AA00256@sics.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: Re: i tidningen In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 16 Jan 1995 14:27:57 +0700." <9501161327.AA02113@hpustoix.sweden.hp.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 14:39:30 +0100 From: Annika Waern Status: RO SCA figurerar i dagens DN i ett annat sammanhang ocks}. I artikeln om husockupationen i V{ster}s (den "mot EU") n{mns att ockupanderna var med i ett vitt spektra av "politiska organisationer", alltifr}n Amnesty till S{llskapet f|r kreativ anakronism. Trist, fast det {r nog tristare f|r Amnesty. Katrina / Annika P.S. NEJ, jag {r inte generellt emot husockupationer. Jag {r emot husockupationer d{r man tillverkar bensinbomber och f|rs|ker kasta dem p} poliser. D.S. From nordmark-request Mon Jan 16 15:39:27 1995 Return-Path: <@nomina.lu.se:kansli.lth-j.spanne@macpost.lu.se> Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA18392 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 15:39:26 +0100 Received: from macpost.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP (5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA29446; Mon, 16 Jan 95 15:42:09 +0100 Subject: Re: i tidningen To: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 15:42:15 +0100 Message-Id: <950116.154215.77554@macpost.lu.se> Status: RO >... ... I artikeln om >husockupationen ... ... ett vitt spektra av "politiska organisationer", >alltifr}n Amnesty till S{llskapet f|r kreativ anakronism. ... ... Undrar vem som st}r f|r det d}liga omd|met, den eventuelle SCA-iten som ocks} {r husockupant och som inte kan h}lla det ena och det andra is{r, eller journalisten som bara drog till med namnet p} n}gon s}n d{r "konstig sekt". Eller {r n}gon sur p} oss och vill f|rd{rva SCA:s rykte? /Catrin (inte heller principiellt emot husockupation, men best{mt emot att dra in mundan politik i SCA, eller SCA in i mundan politik ...) From nordmark-request Mon Jan 16 15:49:06 1995 Return-Path: masc@sweden.hp.com Received: from hplb.hpl.hp.com (hplb.hpl.hp.com [15.255.59.2]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA18460 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 15:49:02 +0100 Received: from hpustoix.sweden.hp.com by hplb.hpl.hp.com; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 14:46:04 GMT Received: by hpustoix.sweden.hp.com (1.38.193.5/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA02297; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 15:48:35 +0100 From: Marie Schroder Message-Id: <9501161448.AA02297@hpustoix.sweden.hp.com> Subject: i tidningen To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 15:48:34 MET X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.13i] Status: RO Hej Marie haer. SCA aer ju som sagt "politiskt och religioest" obundna......saa att figurera med SCA i samband med husockupationer aer enligt mig i varje fall synnerligen dumt. Vad jag undrar aer om det aer en medlem med daaligt omdoeme eller ytterligare en totalfoervirrad journalist??? Naagon som vet????? Marie From nordmark-request Mon Jan 16 17:54:27 1995 Return-Path: parlei@ki.se Received: from ki.se (ki.se [130.237.207.77]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA19703 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 17:54:26 +0100 Received: by ki.se id AA12497 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Mon, 16 Jan 1995 17:56:30 +0100 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 17:56:29 +0200 (METDST) From: Par Leijonhufvud labtek Subject: Re: i tidningen Cc: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-Reply-To: <9501161327.AA02113@hpustoix.sweden.hp.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Mon, 16 Jan 1995, Marie Schroder wrote: > Hej hopp > > Marie haer. > > Det aer haart att vara beroemda. Nu aer vi i tidningen igen. > Den haer gaangen helt utan text minsann! Inte alls utan text; det st}r plats och klockslag ocks}. /UlR (som inte kunde h}lla sig, fl}t) > > DN Stockholm sidan 6 foer er nyfikna. > > Gilliam och Harabanar slaar paa varandra. [r dom osams...? ;-) > > > Marie > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Paer K.G. Leijonhufvud Oh, *practice*. I don't mind Email: Par.Leijonhufvud@labtek.ki.se *practising*. So long as we Voice: +46-(0)8-758 8459 don't have to do it for real... From nordmark-request Mon Jan 16 18:46:37 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA20106 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 18:46:36 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA24669; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 18:46:30 +0100 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 18:46:30 +0100 Message-Id: <199501161746.SAA24669@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: leeu@celsiustech.se CC: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: <199501160828.JAA19916@world.celsiustech.se> (message from Leif Euren on Mon, 16 Jan 1995 09:28:43 +0100 (MET)) Subject: Re: Letter... From: Status: RO Bra, Peder! Kanske att }tminstone en del av lagtexten kan r{ddas med hj{lp av h{nvisning till dessa svenska regler! Det st}r ju faktiskt i Corpora att nationell mundan lag g{ller |ver Corpora... Har n}n kollat om f|rk{mpar finns i Svea Rikes Lag? :-) William From nordmark-request Mon Jan 16 19:30:31 1995 Return-Path: annika@sics.se Received: from sics.se (sics.se [192.16.123.90]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA20362 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 19:30:30 +0100 Received: from anhur.sics.se by sics.se (5.65+bind 1.7+ida 1.4.2/SICS-1.4) with SMTP id AA29835; Mon, 16 Jan 95 19:30:29 +0100 Message-Id: <9501161830.AA29835@sics.se> To: NORDMARK@ludd.luth.se Subject: Och nu kommer citatet Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 19:30:28 +0100 From: Annika Waern Status: RO Nu n{r jag har tidningen framf|r |gonen kan jag citera ordagrannt - med undantag f|r "klamrar": "Gruppen tycks ha skiftande politiska engagemang i alltifr}n Amnesty till "S{llskapet f|r Kreativ Anakronism". Sistn{mnda organisation tillh|r en 16-}ring, som ocks} s{gs ing} i ledarkvartetten. Liksom flera av de yngre deltagarna f|rklarar han sig egentligen vara motst}ndare till v}ld." Slut citat. Artikeln finns p} sid. 5 , DN m}ndagen den 16/1. Katrina/Annika From nordmark-request Tue Jan 17 12:50:11 1995 Return-Path: <@nomina.lu.se:BI93AJ75@lthvov.vsek.lth.se> Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA25738 for ; Tue, 17 Jan 1995 12:50:10 +0100 Received: from lthvov.vsek.lth.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP (5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA03716; Tue, 17 Jan 95 12:52:55 +0100 Received: from LTHVOV/SpoolDir by lthvov.vsek.lth.se (Mercury 1.20); 17 Jan 95 12:50:11 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LTHVOV (Mercury 1.20); 17 Jan 95 12:50:03 +0100 From: "ANDERS JOHANSSON" Organization: Department of Civil Engineerin,LTH To: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 12:50:02 GMT +0100 Subject: anslutning till NML Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: <30ECB7147E@lthvov.vsek.lth.se> Status: RO Hej SCA-iter! Genom min vaen Susanne Graeslund (alias Bronia) pa KTH fick jag hoera talas om Nordmarks Mailing Lista. Jag aer sjaelv inte medlem i SCA, men har flera vaenner inom foereningen, och har bevistat ett flertal arrangemang, bland annat i Hova, pa Gotland och haer i Skane. Jag sysslar i foersta hand dock med Live, och aer aktiv i en foerening som heter Gyllene Hjorten, som ni kanske kaenner till. Hur som helst vore det roligt att ta del av vad som diskuteras inom SCA, saersklit nu pa sista tiden da debatten kring rollspel tagit ny fart. Daerfoer hoppas jag att ni vill ansluta nedanstaende adress till listan: BI93AJ75@lthvov.vsek.lth.se Tack pa foerhand! / Anders Johansson From nordmark-request Wed Jan 18 09:20:26 1995 Return-Path: bronia@ar.sunet.se Received: from decnet.sunet.se (decnet.sunet.se [192.36.125.5]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA03371 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 1995 09:20:25 +0100 From: bronia@ar.sunet.se Received: from AR.DECnet MAIL11D_V3 by decnet.sunet.se (5.57/2.01) id AA14969; Wed, 18 Jan 95 09:17:13 +0100 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 09:17:12 +0100 Message-Id: <9501180817.AA14969@decnet.sunet.se> To: "nordmark@ludd.luth.se"@kth.sunet.se Subject: Musik- och danshelg III Status: RO Hejsan allihopa, Bronia paa prathoegen! Jag ville bara paaminna om att ni som aer intresserade boer passa paa att an- maela er till Musik- och danshelgen snarast moejligt. Information kan faas fraanBronia@Chemstud.kth.se. Evenemanget gaar av stapeln den 3-5 februari paa Fyrisskolan i Uppsala/Aros. Vaelkomna oenskar Fru Bronia & Fru Tora From nordmark-request Wed Jan 18 14:58:23 1995 Return-Path: Kristina.Hildebrand@lobster.hsc.uu.se Received: from columba.udac.uu.se (columba.UDAC.UU.SE [130.238.4.133]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA05708 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 1995 14:58:22 +0100 Received: from lobster.hsc.uu.se by columba.udac.uu.se with SMTP id AA38038 (5.67b8/IDA-1.4.4 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Wed, 18 Jan 1995 14:58:19 +0100 Received: from [130.238.165.74] (enkrihi.ENGELSKA.UU.SE) by lobster.hsc.uu.se with SMTP id AA23557 (5.67b/IDA-1.4.4 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Wed, 18 Jan 1995 14:58:09 +0100 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 14:58:09 +0100 Message-Id: <199501181358.AA23557@lobster.hsc.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Kristina.Hildebrand@engelska.uu.se Subject: Re: Notes on the Board Meeting X-Charset: LATIN1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: RO >Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn. Hossein attended the Board >Meeting this past weekend and took notes, but he is now down ill, and >anyhow, does not have net access at the moment. The following are my >transcribed notes (by phone) of _his_ notes. Any errors are probably >mine. > >First: Sedalia was not present. Neither were Duke John Bearkiller >(John Fulton; _both_ his parents were in hospital with critical >situations, his father for emergency by-pass surgery, his mother >with a stroke) and Master Erik of Telemark (Ed Kreyling; there >was a crisis at his workplace, and his job and the company were >on the line). Several key decisions were deferred until they can >be present; others will probably be taken up again when they are. > >1. Nonmember Surcharge > Through the end of December, the surcharge had raised $25,350.74. >The East has the worst compliance record. Sedalia separately reported >that she has been having problems with the EK seneschal, citing >especially that he has only filed one report since taking office, and >reports that she may suspend him. > The Board voted to rebate 1/3 of the surcharge to the kingdoms, and >issued checks to do so on the spot. Some Board members indicated that >there will be a further veview of the surcharge and of the budget at >the April meeting; see item 10. > >2. Branch financial policy > Will be reviewed for adoption or rejection in April. > >3. Complete Anachronist. > The Board is looking for a new editor to take over. > >4. Grand Council > The Board announced AElflaed's resignation from the Council and >from the Nominating Committee. Martin Costa was recommended to the >Board to replace her on the Nominating Committee. The Board chose >not to ratify Costa, declaraing instead that the composition of the >Nominating Committee was the internal business of the Grand Council, >and leaving ratification to the Council. The Board approved the new >kingdom representatives, ratified the charter, and indicated that >while focus areas still appeared in the charter, the Board expects >the Grand Council to undertake a thorough review of the Corporation, >and to investigate and make recommendations about _any_ aspect >of the Corporation it chooses. > >5. Finance Committee > There are now five members. They have commissioned a study on >how to outsource the Registry, and set up an Audit Subcommittee. >They are also working on establishing what percentage of membership >suscription each line item on the budget accounts for. > >6. Computer Committee > A volunteer is now performing an analysis of the computer needs. >Two others have the FoxPRO code, and are working on getting it to do >something useful. > >7. Canadian committee > Requested to be dissolved, and was. > >8. Marketing committee > Hossein was confirmed as chair; the Board asked for a report in April. > >9. Next Board Meeting > Because of problems getting appropriate hotel space at feasible costs >(the meeting is scheduled over Easter), Pittsburgh has been forced to >withdraw its bid. The Board is desperately looking for an alternative. > >10. Budget > In executive session, the Board adopted a '95 budget that was less >than last year's budget, but more than they actually spent last year. >While some Board members strongly favored an austerity budget, there >were not enough votes to pass such a budget. While significant cuts >were made in the professional services category, the budget includes >no overall reduction of expenditures. > It was felt that the immediate adoption of some budget was >necessary for cost control. The Board will continue to review the >budget with the aim of further reductions at the April meeting. > The Board also agreed to solicit for donations to reduce the >current unfunded subscription liability, and indicated that if >donations significantly reduced that liability, the nonmember >surcharge would be rescinded immediately. > >11. Heralds > > Da'oud ibn Auda has been reappointed for one more year. > >12. Chirurgeon > > The position of Chirurgeon General is being left open for the >coming quarter; the Board is considering abolishing the position. > >===== > >Much of the really important business (including the changes to >Corpora that would enact the proposed changes to the Society Seneschal >and Executive Director positions, were put off until April. (Abolish- >ing the ED position would cut more than $30,000 from the budget.) > >Those are the highlights from Hossein's notes. > >-- Angharad/Terry From nordmark-request Wed Jan 18 15:17:55 1995 Return-Path: Kristina.Hildebrand@lobster.hsc.uu.se Received: from columba.udac.uu.se (columba.UDAC.UU.SE [130.238.4.133]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA05911 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 1995 15:17:54 +0100 Received: from lobster.hsc.uu.se by columba.udac.uu.se with SMTP id AA48278 (5.67b8/IDA-1.4.4 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Wed, 18 Jan 1995 15:17:53 +0100 Received: from [130.238.165.74] (enkrihi.ENGELSKA.UU.SE) by lobster.hsc.uu.se with SMTP id AA23882 (5.67b/IDA-1.4.4 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Wed, 18 Jan 1995 15:17:51 +0100 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 15:17:51 +0100 Message-Id: <199501181417.AA23882@lobster.hsc.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Kristina.Hildebrand@engelska.uu.se Subject: Silversparren X-Charset: LATIN1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: RO > You may ask "Maire, this is all news to me. Why didn't you >tell us all this before?" Well, I thought I had. I spoke to three >persons involved with the Principality project several times over the >last calendar year about these things. Everything in this note and >more besides was shared with them. I assumed that they had shared >all these things with you, the populace of Nordmark. Det skulle jag ocks ha trott. Fick n gon verkligen denna information av Maire, och varf r r den i s fall inte mer allm nt spridd? Celemon From nordmark-request Wed Jan 18 17:35:24 1995 Return-Path: bubba@ludd.luth.se Received: from skynet.ludd.luth.se (skynet.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.6]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA07453 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 1995 17:35:23 +0100 From: "U.J|rgen \hman" Received: (bubba@localhost) by skynet.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA00364 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se; Wed, 18 Jan 1995 17:35:21 +0100 Message-Id: <199501181635.RAA00364@skynet.ludd.luth.se> Subject: heraldisk fr}ga... To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se (sca) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 17:35:19 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 841 Status: RO Salve allihopsens....Ulf h{r... Jag undrar om samma heraldiska regler g{ller f|r "devices" s}v{l som "badges"?? Allts} det h{r med metall p} f{rg och vice versa... Sedan h|rda jag n}got om att svart skulle ha n}gra special-regler... ..kan det st{mma??? Hur som helst....fr}gen jag har {r egentligen om det {r till}tet att p} en "badge" l{gga en r|d "charge" p} svart f{lt?? Tack F|rhand Ulf, f{rgad av undran... :) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Ulf Mj|dtunga(Mjoedtunga, Meadtongue) *Canton of Frostheim *(where frogs live NOT) Vert, in pale a crescent inverted *Barony of Nordmark and a Thor's hammer argent. *Kingdom of Drachenwald bubba@ludd.luth.se -=- U.J|rgen \hman -=- U.Joergen Oehman(NHL-Spelling) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From nordmark-request Wed Jan 18 21:16:49 1995 Return-Path: ERA.ERAAINA@memo4.ericsson.se Received: from mailgate.ericsson.se (mailgate.ericsson.se [130.100.2.2]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA10196 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 1995 21:16:48 +0100 From: ERA.ERAAINA@memo4.ericsson.se Received: from edt02.ericsson.se (edt02.ericsson.se [136.225.9.4]) by mailgate.ericsson.se (8.6.9/1.0) with ESMTP id VAA08791 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 1995 21:16:46 +0100 Received: from memo.ericsson.se by edt.ericsson.se (PMDF V4.3-8 #7344) id <01HM08D3FSUO9I5842@edt.ericsson.se>; Wed, 18 Jan 1995 21:18:18 +0100 Received: with PMDF-MR; Wed, 18 Jan 1995 21:18:32 +0100 MR-Received: by mta EDS05; Relayed; Wed, 18 Jan 1995 21:18:32 +0100 Alternate-recipient: prohibited Disclose-recipients: prohibited Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 21:17:00 +0100 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=F6rfr=E5gan?= To: NORDMARK@LUDD.LUTH.SE Message-id: <"4dcwq nu6dhLNPFM*"@MHS> X-Envelope-to: NORDMARK@LUDD.LUTH.SE MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE UA-content-id: 4dcwq nu6dhLNPFM X400-MTS-identifier: [;23811281105991/279719@EDS] Hop-count: 2 Status: RO --- Received from ERA.ERAAINA 08-757 3505 95-01-18 21.17 -> VAX.NORDMARK..LUDD.LUTH.SE..INET -: - - - - - - - - - - > MAIL USER IN VAX AND INTERNET Klargoerande angaaende foerfraagan, "pollingen" I sambande med foerfraagan angaaende furstend=F6mespetitionen skulle jag vilja saega ett par ord. Det finns inget annat lagfoerslag att roesta om aen det som nu foereligger, angivet av tinget. Taenk sjaelv, det skulle vara direkt demokratiskt foeroedande om en enskild person eller aembetsman hittade paa ett nytt alternativ istaelllet foer det som dryftats vid ting i snart 1 1/2 - 2 aar. Det aer omoejligt foer en enskild individ att skriva ett nytt foerslag i sista minuten utan att tillfraaga Nordmarks folk. Baroness Maire emottog i sin egen hand i juni 1994 ett saa fullstaendigt foerslag till petition som moejligt, inklusive roestsedel och lagfoerslag. Hennes synpunkter paa detta utkast har daerefter bearbetats av tinget. Den enda foeraendringen som gjorts paa roestsedeln var tillaegget av de ord som tydliggoer moejligheten till foerkaempe och tingets inflytande. Detta foertydligande gjordes i enlighet med Baroness Maires uttryckliga oenskemaal efter det att hon mottagit och gett respons paa de utkast hon fick i juni 1994. Formella hinder i Corpora aer inte ett skael foer att avstaa fraan att roesta, det finns andra moejligheter aen den formella vaegen. Vill vi ha det Nordmark vi oenskar finns det inget baettre saett aen att var och en faar roesta om det enda lagfoerslag tinget tagit fram i en demokratiskt process som beroert alla medlemmar. Avge din roest avseende lagfoerslaget saa att viljan i Nordmark blir kaend saa har vi den baesta moejliga grund foer diskussioner paa tinget. En tydlig vilja gaar ej att ignorera!!! Heloise From nordmark-request Thu Jan 19 11:45:20 1995 Return-Path: frithiof@akka.kemi.uu.se Received: from akka.kemi.uu.se (akka.kemi.uu.se [130.238.66.10]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA15923 for ; Thu, 19 Jan 1995 11:45:19 +0100 Received: by akka.kemi.uu.se id AA09923 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Thu, 19 Jan 1995 11:42:44 +0100 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 11:42:44 +0100 From: Sven Noren Message-Id: <199501191042.AA09923@akka.kemi.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: Lagen! Status: RO Heloise skrev: >Det finns inget annat lagfoerslag att roesta om aen det som nu >foereligger, angivet av tinget. Nej, det {r det jag tycker {r ett problem. >Vill vi ha det Nordmark vi oenskar finns det inget baettre saett >aen att var och en faar roesta om det enda lagfoerslag tinget >tagit fram i en demokratiskt process som beroert alla medlemmar. S} fint, en omr|stning med bara ett alternativ?! >Avge din roest avseende lagfoerslaget saa att viljan i Nordmark >blir kaend saa har vi den baesta moejliga grund foer diskussioner >paa tinget. En tydlig vilja gaar ej att ignorera!!! Lagf|rslaget st{mmer inte med min vilja, och r|stsedeln ger mig ingen m|jlighet att uttrycka vad jag vill eftersom lagf|rslaget har kopplats samman med fr}gan om Nordmark skall bli furstend|me! Jag vill att Nordmark skall bli furstend|me, men JAG VILL INTE HA F\RK[MPAR I KRONTORNERINGARNA! Jag vet att jag inte {r ensam om denna }sikt! Vi som delar den kanske har varit i minoritet p} de ting som har behandlat lagen, men vi finns! [r detta tydligt nog? Frithiof. From nordmark-request Thu Jan 19 12:19:45 1995 Return-Path: Kristina.Hildebrand@lobster.hsc.uu.se Received: from columba.udac.uu.se (columba.UDAC.UU.SE [130.238.4.133]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA16249 for ; Thu, 19 Jan 1995 12:19:44 +0100 Received: from lobster.hsc.uu.se by columba.udac.uu.se with SMTP id AA07169 (5.67b8/IDA-1.4.4 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Thu, 19 Jan 1995 12:19:37 +0100 Received: from [130.238.165.74] (enkrihi.ENGELSKA.UU.SE) by lobster.hsc.uu.se with SMTP id AA06202 (5.67b/IDA-1.4.4 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Thu, 19 Jan 1995 12:19:19 +0100 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 12:19:19 +0100 Message-Id: <199501191119.AA06202@lobster.hsc.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Kristina.Hildebrand@engelska.uu.se Subject: lagen X-Charset: LATIN1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: RO > >Vi kan ans|ka om att f} bli ett "Palatine Barony". Om jag {r >r{tt informerad inneb{r detta ett baroni d{r man byter baron >med j{mna mellanrum, precis som man byter furste i furstend|men. >Men till skillnad fr}n kunga- och furstend|men finns det inga >regler om HUR "tronf|ljaren" ska utses. Man kan allts} anv{nda >precis vilken metod man vill. Jag ser ett markant problem med det h r, n mligen att sm grupperna i s fall f r f rbli kantoner eller l mna Nordmark. Ingen av oss vill nog l mna Nordmark, men samtidigt v xer grupperna inom Sverige och blir ohanterliga att administrera som kantoner. Celemon From nordmark-request Thu Jan 19 12:31:56 1995 Return-Path: Kristina.Hildebrand@lobster.hsc.uu.se Received: from columba.udac.uu.se (columba.UDAC.UU.SE [130.238.4.133]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA16386 for ; Thu, 19 Jan 1995 12:31:55 +0100 Received: from lobster.hsc.uu.se by columba.udac.uu.se with SMTP id AA25621 (5.67b8/IDA-1.4.4 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Thu, 19 Jan 1995 12:31:54 +0100 Received: from [130.238.165.74] (enkrihi.ENGELSKA.UU.SE) by lobster.hsc.uu.se with SMTP id AA06402 (5.67b/IDA-1.4.4 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Thu, 19 Jan 1995 12:31:51 +0100 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 12:31:51 +0100 Message-Id: <199501191131.AA06402@lobster.hsc.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Kristina.Hildebrand@engelska.uu.se Subject: Re: Lagen! X-Charset: LATIN1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: RO > >>Avge din roest avseende lagfoerslaget saa att viljan i Nordmark >>blir kaend saa har vi den baesta moejliga grund foer diskussioner >>paa tinget. En tydlig vilja gaar ej att ignorera!!! Jasaa. BoD har ignorerat medlemmarnas tydliga vilja taemligen laenge nu, kan vi som aer involverade i reformerbetet intyga. En stor del av BoD struntar grundligt i vad medlemmarna tycker, eftersom de tror paa systemet 'en liten elit styr den okunniga populasen'. Jag tror inte att vi ska vara alltfoer optimistiska. Celemon From nordmark-request Thu Jan 19 12:51:05 1995 Return-Path: xordph@ludd.luth.se Received: from father.ludd.luth.se (father.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.18]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA16506 for ; Thu, 19 Jan 1995 12:51:04 +0100 From: "L. J|rgen \hman" Received: (xordph@localhost) by father.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA25916 for nordmark; Thu, 19 Jan 1995 12:50:59 +0100 Message-Id: <199501191150.MAA25916@father.ludd.luth.se> Subject: Lagen mm. To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 12:50:58 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 613 Status: RO >Jag ser ett markant problem med det h r, n mligen att sm grupperna i s >fall f r f rbli kantoner eller l mna Nordmark. Ingen av oss vill nog l mna >Nordmark, men samtidigt v xer grupperna inom Sverige och blir ohanterliga >att administrera som kantoner. >Celemon Jag skulle vara vilja fr}ga vid vliken storlek du tycker att en kanton blir "ohaterligt" stor ? En kankon beh|ver ju minst 30-50 medlemmar f|r att det ska b|rja h|nda n}tt, om h{lften av alla som {r med {r {mbetsm{n mm. s} blir det l{tt att folk blir utn|tta. Kantoner p} upp till 200 personer borde inte vara n}tt problem att sk|ta. /Styrbj|rn From nordmark-request Thu Jan 19 12:52:24 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA16517 for ; Thu, 19 Jan 1995 12:52:23 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA23402; Thu, 19 Jan 1995 12:52:21 +0100 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 12:52:21 +0100 Message-Id: <199501191152.MAA23402@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: Sven.Noren@Kemi.UU.SE CC: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: <199501191042.AA09923@akka.kemi.uu.se> (message from Sven Noren on Thu, 19 Jan 1995 11:42:44 +0100) Subject: Re: Lagen! From: Status: RO Frithiof: Det ser ut som om du vill ha n}got om|jligt. F|r att vi ska kunna l{mna in en petition s} m}ste det finnas ett lagf|rslag. Detta lagf|rslag m}ste utarbetas av n}gon -- i v}rt fall har Tinget p demokratiskt s{tt jobbat fram det. N{r lagf|rslaget finns, ska det godk{nnas eller f|rkastas av medlemmarna, tillsammans med beg{ran om att f} bli furstend|me. Den omr|stningen g{ller allts} inte HUR lagen ska vara utformad, utan om det f|religgande lagen duger. Att de papper som nu skickats ut s{rskilt p}pekar att lagen inneh}ller f|rk{mpar mm., beror allts} inte p} att det {r den fr}gan som ska avg|ras nu -- den {r redan avgjord. Orsaken till p}pekandet {r att Maire (enligt Heloise) beg{rde det, och att vi vill g|ra det tydligt att de "avvikande" best{mmelserna inte {r n}got som smugits in i lagtexten som en kupp, i hopp om att folk ska skriva p} utan att l{sa igenom lagen. Genom att de UTTRYCKLIGEN st}r d{r som ett s{rskilt p}pekande, blir det tydligt att ingen kan ha skrivit p} petitionen utan att vara medveten om de h{r sakerna. Vad du vill ha {r allts} en m|jlighet att tala om att du inte vill ha f|rk{mpar. Den m|jligheten hade du vid Tinget -- och du kommer att ha den vid framtida Ting. Men inte p} petitionen, f|r det {r ingen omr|stning som g{ller den fr}gan. William From nordmark-request Thu Jan 19 13:07:26 1995 Return-Path: Kristina.Hildebrand@lobster.hsc.uu.se Received: from columba.udac.uu.se (columba.UDAC.UU.SE [130.238.4.133]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA16615 for ; Thu, 19 Jan 1995 13:07:26 +0100 Received: from lobster.hsc.uu.se by columba.udac.uu.se with SMTP id AA09522 (5.67b8/IDA-1.4.4 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Thu, 19 Jan 1995 13:07:25 +0100 Received: from [130.238.165.74] (enkrihi.ENGELSKA.UU.SE) by lobster.hsc.uu.se with SMTP id AA06997 (5.67b/IDA-1.4.4 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Thu, 19 Jan 1995 13:07:21 +0100 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 13:07:21 +0100 Message-Id: <199501191207.AA06997@lobster.hsc.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Kristina.Hildebrand@engelska.uu.se Subject: lagen X-Charset: LATIN1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: RO >Jag skulle vara vilja fr}ga vid vliken storlek du tycker att en kanton >blir "ohaterligt" stor ? >En kankon beh|ver ju minst 30-50 medlemmar f|r att det ska b|rja h|nda >n}tt, om h{lften av alla som {r med {r {mbetsm{n mm. s} blir det l{tt >att folk blir utn|tta. Kantoner p} upp till 200 personer borde inte >vara n}tt problem att sk|ta. > > /Styrbj|rn Problemet uppstaar naer man, trots en restriktiv politik vad det gaeller aembetsmaen, finner att kantonen utrustats med en maengd saadana - oftast foer att fylla ett verkligt behov av samordnare/sakkunnig/ansvarig paa omraadet. Sedan upptaecker man att dessa aembetsmaen flyttar eller troettnar och behoever ersaettas, men tyvaerr inte har hittat en ersaettare i tid. Det faller daa taemligen automatiskt paa drotsen att fixa det hela. Problemet aer taemligen tydligt just i situationen naer haelften av alla aer aembetsmaen - alla som skulle vara laempliga foer jobbet har naemligen redan ett... En hel maengd liknande uppgifter som inte aer saerskilt betungande i en kanton med tre-fyra aembetsmaen kan paa samma saett bli vaeldigt jobbiga i en kanton med sju-aatta stycken. r man istaellet ett baroni saa kan baron/baronessa ta oever saadana uppgifter - det aer ju deras aembetsmaen. Paa samma saett kan man, om man r ett baroni, skifta vem som aaker till curia foer att yttra sig aa gruppens v gnar - saavitt jag vet (var aer lagen?) har Drachenwalds lokaldrotsar saete i curian; ett jobb som ocksaa blir betungande om man faktiskt vill utfoera det och aer ensam talesman/kvinna foer sin grupp. Celemon From nordmark-request Thu Jan 19 13:11:14 1995 Return-Path: Kristina.Hildebrand@lobster.hsc.uu.se Received: from columba.udac.uu.se (columba.UDAC.UU.SE [130.238.4.133]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA16628 for ; Thu, 19 Jan 1995 13:11:13 +0100 Received: from lobster.hsc.uu.se by columba.udac.uu.se with SMTP id AA29114 (5.67b8/IDA-1.4.4 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Thu, 19 Jan 1995 13:11:12 +0100 Received: from [130.238.165.74] (enkrihi.ENGELSKA.UU.SE) by lobster.hsc.uu.se with SMTP id AA07056 (5.67b/IDA-1.4.4 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Thu, 19 Jan 1995 13:11:09 +0100 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 13:11:09 +0100 Message-Id: <199501191211.AA07056@lobster.hsc.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Kristina.Hildebrand@engelska.uu.se Subject: lagen X-Charset: LATIN1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: RO >Vad du vill ha {r allts} en m|jlighet att tala om >att du inte vill ha f|rk{mpar. Den m|jligheten hade >du vid Tinget -- och du kommer att ha den vid framtida >Ting. Men inte p} petitionen, f|r det {r ingen omr|stning >som g{ller den fr}gan. Tja, det sa vi ju paa tinget. Problemet aer nog snarare Maires kommentar: > I was told that "All of Nordmark would rather NOT go >Principality than change these three issues in the proposed >Principality laws". Detta staeller jag inte upp paa, och jag skulle foeredra en polling daer jag kan saega att jag vill att vi blir furstendoeme aeven om den haer lagen inte gaar igenom. Celemon From nordmark-request Thu Jan 19 14:47:26 1995 Return-Path: frithiof@akka.kemi.uu.se Received: from akka.kemi.uu.se (akka.kemi.uu.se [130.238.66.10]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA18225 for ; Thu, 19 Jan 1995 14:47:25 +0100 Received: by akka.kemi.uu.se id AA10709 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Thu, 19 Jan 1995 14:44:50 +0100 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 14:44:50 +0100 From: Sven Noren Message-Id: <199501191344.AA10709@akka.kemi.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: Lagar och furstend|men Status: RO Vad jag vill ha {r en lag som har en rimlig m|jlighet att g} igenom. Det har inte den lag som f|religger, det har gjorts klart genom f|rhands besked fr}n de som skall besluta i den h{r fr}gan. Alternativen p} "pollingen" blir allts} om vi skall f|rv{gras furstend|mestatus eller f|rbli baroni. Allt i demokratiens namn(?) Sorgligt. Frithiof From nordmark-request Thu Jan 19 18:15:36 1995 Return-Path: parlei@ki.se Received: from ki.se (ki.se [130.237.207.77]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA20162 for ; Thu, 19 Jan 1995 18:15:35 +0100 Received: by ki.se id AA19756 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Thu, 19 Jan 1995 18:17:39 +0100 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 18:17:38 +0200 (METDST) From: Par Leijonhufvud labtek Subject: Re: Kantoniell storlek (var: Lagen mm.) Cc: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-Reply-To: <199501191150.MAA25916@father.ludd.luth.se> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Jag bor i Niordmarks (s} vitt jag vet) st|rsta kanton; Holmrike. Vi har problem med storleken. I och med att vi {r s} stora beh|ver vi m|jligheten att skapa lokala undergrupper. Det kan vi i praktiken inte som kanton. Som baroni skulle vi troligtvis ha n}gra kantoner under oss, med all den avlastning som detta skulle inneb{ra f|r {mbetsm{nn, etc. /UlfR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Name: Paer K.G. Leijonhufvud Oh, *practice*. I don't mind Email: Par.Leijonhufvud@labtek.ki.se *practising*. So long as we Voice: +46-(0)8-758 8459 don't have to do it for real... From nordmark-request Thu Jan 19 20:08:13 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA20964 for ; Thu, 19 Jan 1995 20:08:10 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA28696; Thu, 19 Jan 1995 20:08:07 +0100 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 20:08:07 +0100 Message-Id: <199501191908.UAA28696@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: Kristina.Hildebrand@engelska.uu.se CC: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: <199501191119.AA06202@lobster.hsc.uu.se> (Kristina.Hildebrand@engelska.uu.se) Subject: Re: lagen From: Status: RO Celemon skrev: >Jag ser ett markant problem med det h r, n mligen att sm grupperna i s >fall f r f rbli kantoner eller l mna Nordmark. Ingen av oss vill nog l mna >Nordmark, men samtidigt v xer grupperna inom Sverige och blir ohanterliga >att administrera som kantoner. Riktigt. Om Nordmark inte blir furstend|me, m}ste vi dela oss i flera baronier. De grupper som {r f|r stora f|r att vara kantoner kan l{mpligen bli baronier snarast m|jligt, oavsett hur det g}r med furstend|met. William From nordmark-request Thu Jan 19 20:17:05 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA21059 for ; Thu, 19 Jan 1995 20:17:04 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA28706; Thu, 19 Jan 1995 20:17:02 +0100 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 20:17:02 +0100 Message-Id: <199501191917.UAA28706@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: Kristina.Hildebrand@engelska.uu.se CC: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: <199501191211.AA07056@lobster.hsc.uu.se> (Kristina.Hildebrand@engelska.uu.se) Subject: Re: lagen From: Status: RO Jag vet inte vem som kan ha sagt n}got s}dant till Maire som att hela Nordmark hellre l}ter bli att bli furstend|me {n skippar den h{r lagen. Med tanke p} vad jag sj{lv har sagt till henne misst{nker jag att hon blandat ihop saker lite. Jag har sagt att "{ven om den h{r petitionen inte blir godk{nd utan m}ste g|ras om, s} vill vi {nd} skicka den till BoD s} att de f}r veta vad vi vill, och blir tvungna att ge ett offentligt svar" ungef{r. D{rmed {r ju inte sagt att vi inte kan t{nka oss att komma med en f|r{ndrad petition om BoD s{ger nej. William From nordmark-request Thu Jan 19 20:22:56 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA21137 for ; Thu, 19 Jan 1995 20:22:55 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA28713; Thu, 19 Jan 1995 20:22:47 +0100 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 20:22:47 +0100 Message-Id: <199501191922.UAA28713@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: Par.Leijonhufvud@labtek.ki.se CC: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: (message from Par Leijonhufvud labtek on Thu, 19 Jan 1995 18:17:38 +0200 (METDST)) Subject: Re: Kantoniell storlek (var: Lagen mm.) From: Status: RO Holmrike: varf|r inte dela er i flera kantoner? Varf|r inte s|ka om att bli baroni? William From nordmark-request Mon Jan 23 09:16:39 1995 Return-Path: frithiof@akka.kemi.uu.se Received: from akka.kemi.uu.se (akka.kemi.uu.se [130.238.66.10]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA05147 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 1995 09:16:38 +0100 Received: by akka.kemi.uu.se id AA00400 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Mon, 23 Jan 1995 09:13:57 +0100 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 09:13:57 +0100 From: Sven Noren Message-Id: <199501230813.AA00400@akka.kemi.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: Partyparty Status: RO N{r m}nen {r full och v}rdagj{mningen n{rmar sig, vad {r d} i faggorna? Ja, h{r i Aros skall vi ha en fest! N{rmare best{mt den 17-19 Mars. Platsen blir samma som f|r k{mpatr{ningsl{gret, Lurbo G}rd utanf|r Uppsala. R|kning inomhus {r inte till}ten, d{remot husdjur om de h}lls under uppsikt. Lokalen {r diskret v}t. Schema: Fredag 16.00 Lokalen |ppnar. Knytkalas under kv{llen. L|rdag 8.30 Frukost. Vidare aktiviteter se nedan. 17.00 Bankett, d{refter dans och allm{n gamman. S|ndag 8.30 Frukost igen. 10.00 Alla kvarvarande antas vara frivilliga st{dare! Kostar g|r det: Grundavgift 100:- frukostar 15:- per styck bankett 60:- s{ngplats 30:- per natt Sova p} golvet {r gratis. Det finns 24 s{ngplatser. F|rst till kvarn... Efter den 3 Mars blir det 30:- kronor dyrare, och efter 10 Mars tar vi inte emot fler anm{lningar. Skicka pengarna till postgirokonto nummer 47 58 35-5, SKA-Aros. Skriv ocks} vem du {r och vad du betalar f|r. Skicka dessutom en skriftlig reservation till Kelly Boyle, Granitv{gen 10A, 752 43 UPPSALA. Inkludera eventuella allergier och speciella krav p} mat eller dylikt. Planerade aktiviteter: En konst och vetenskapsutst{llning d{r alla {r v{lkomna att visa upp vad man h}ller p} med. Plats finns ocks} f|r att h}lla f|redrag, seminarier, och workshops, f|r de som s} |nskar. Autokraten tar g{rna emot f|rslag. F|r de k{mpar som bara inte kan l}ta bli skall det bli en Highlander- tornering (endast tv}handssv{rd), och en melee (alla vapenstilar). Litet heraldik skall vi nog f|rs|ka f} med ocks}. Hur man tar sig dit, med bil: Ta E4 till Uppsala. I rondellen vid s|dra infarten, sv{ng v{sterut mot centrum. Du k|r nu p} Kungs{ngsleden. F|lj denna drygt }tta kilometer, f|rbi tre trafikljus, |ver en bro, och f|rbi ett trafikljus till. Efter ett bostadsomr}de kommer {ngar och f{lt, d{refter tr{d och hus. Sv{ng h|ger mot Hammarskog, |ver en liten bro. 300 meter l{ngre fram ligger ett gult hus till v{nster. Det {r Lurbo G}rd. Om du kommer med t}g: G} v{sterut fr}n stationen, det vill s{ga rakt fram, l{ngs Bang}rdsgatan fram till }n. Sv{ng h|ger och g} ungef{r ett kvarter till h}llplatsen f|r buss 23. Tag denna till Lurbo bro, g} |ver bron och vidare de 300 meterna till Lurbo G}rd. Telefonnummer till Lurbo G}rd {r 018-40 04 01 Autokrat {r Frithiof Sigvardsson Sk{gge, adress: Sven Noren, Gnejsv{gen 2K, 752 42 UPPSALA telefon 018-50 12 24 sladdpost Sven.Noren@kemi.UU.SE - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Det ovanst}ende {r annonsen i Silversparren. Sedan jag skickade in den har det tillkommit en del, n{mligen b}gskytte (om det kommer n}gra b}gskyttar) och f{ktning (om det dyker upp n}gra f{ktare). Frithiof, autokrat. From nordmark-request Mon Jan 23 12:19:40 1995 Return-Path: jannis@sth.carta.se Received: from mail.swip.net (mail.swip.net [192.71.180.65]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA06160 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 1995 12:19:39 +0100 From: jannis@sth.carta.se Received: by mail.swip.net with UUCP (8.6.8/3.01) id MAA08852; Mon, 23 Jan 1995 12:21:51 +0100 Message-ID: <199501231121.MAA08852@mail.swip.net> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 12:14 +0100 To: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: Cantoniell storlek. etc Status: RO Var hälsade! I min uppfattning har sysselsättningen i Holmrike stagnerat de senaste åren. Detta har många anledningar, bl.a. att vi inte haft en egen lokal. Holmrike är idag en EJ fungerande grupp i flera avseenden. Botemedlet mot detta är nog inte att för all framtid splittra upp Holmrike i flera grupper. Allt som händer är att det blir fler ämbetsmän och färre medlemmar, dessutom så gör mer splittring det mycket svårare för Holmrike att agera som grupp, vilket redan verkar vara svårt. De ca 70 medlemmarna (jmf med 180 adresser i Census) skulle kunna göra underverk om vi kunde öka samarbetet och utbytet över den magiska minimi- gränsen, under vilken alla hellre arbetar med sina närmaste och inga fler. Många individer och många olika riktningar är naturligt men mycket kan göras b ättre. Hur många kan vi vara utan att det blir ohanterligt? Upp till tvåhundra. Stockholm är vår canton och tills det blir HELT omöjligt att arbeta som en grupp, borde vi jobba på att hålla ihop allt. Hjärtat måste fås att fungera, så att även lokalgrupper runt Stockholm har en samlingsplats sinsemellan. Och vad händer med de medlemmar som inte får någon plats i någon lokalgrupp. De hamnar i kläm. Så sant som det var skrivet, Petrc Monomachos aka Jannis Koukoutsas Mellanbergsvägen 89 126 43 Hägersten CARTA Corporate Advisors 08-23 47 80 From nordmark-request Mon Jan 23 16:29:15 1995 Return-Path: Kristina.Hildebrand@lobster.hsc.uu.se Received: from columba.udac.uu.se (columba.UDAC.UU.SE [130.238.4.133]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA08561 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 1995 16:29:13 +0100 Received: from lobster.hsc.uu.se by columba.udac.uu.se with SMTP id AA05778 (5.67b8/IDA-1.4.4 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Mon, 23 Jan 1995 16:29:12 +0100 Received: from [130.238.165.74] (enkrihi.ENGELSKA.UU.SE) by lobster.hsc.uu.se with SMTP id AA27736 (5.67b/IDA-1.4.4 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Mon, 23 Jan 1995 16:29:09 +0100 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 16:29:09 +0100 Message-Id: <199501231529.AA27736@lobster.hsc.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Kristina.Hildebrand@engelska.uu.se Subject: Re: lagen X-Charset: LATIN1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: RO >Riktigt. Om Nordmark inte blir furstend|me, m}ste vi dela oss >i flera baronier. De grupper som {r f|r stora f|r att vara >kantoner kan l{mpligen bli baronier snarast m|jligt, oavsett >hur det g}r med furstend|met. > >William Men vi kan v l knappast bli baronier inom baroniet Nordmark, och de flesta r nog inte beredda att l mna Nordmark. Celemon From nordmark-request Mon Jan 23 17:04:12 1995 Return-Path: mjl@Rational.COM Received: from rational.com (rational.com [130.213.1.2]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA08893 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 1995 17:04:04 +0100 Received: from igor.Rational.COM (igor [89.64.2.102]) by rational.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA13286 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 1995 08:04:18 -0800 Received: from bonnie.rational.com by igor.Rational.COM (4.1/smh-1.0) id AA02330; Mon, 23 Jan 95 08:03:53 PST From: Matthew Larsen Received: (from mjl@localhost) by bonnie.rational.com (8.6.9/) id IAA25030 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se; Mon, 23 Jan 1995 08:03:51 -0800 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 08:03:51 -0800 Message-Id: <199501231603.IAA25030@bonnie.rational.com> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: Re: Letter to Silversparen Status: RO Greetings from Geoffrey Mathias! I'm going to stick my oar in the water here, but I'd like to beg a little indulgence before I do. Being relatively new here, I'm sure there is history I don't understand, and I can't honestly say that I've read the proposed laws in great detail. So please forgive me in advance if some of my questions seem stupid, or if I propose things that are unworkable for reasons I don't understand. This is a relatively long post, so please bear with me on that, too. Also, I'm cross posting this to the Nordmark mailing list. I'm learning Swedish, but I don't know enough yet to follow all that's been said recently. So if I cover ground that's already been done to death, or propose things that have already been rejected, again, forgive me. > 1.)Language of the Laws-- In cases of doubt, the English >version of the Principality Laws must take precedence, not Swedish as >stated in the proposed Principality laws. > Now, I know this is a hot issue with some of the Nordmark >populace. This is a thorny issue, and unless it is dealt with well, it is likely to become are major roadblock to the development of the SCA in non-english speaking countries. From Maire's phrasing here, I get the feeling that there is a requirement in Corpora that laws be in English. Is this really the case? If so, that limits our options, and I would suggest that we work within Corpora for the moment to get the laws passed. But I also think that we should start the process of trying to change that part of Corpora, because I don't think it's reasonable (as will become clear in my later comments :-). >The purpose of this change is NOT to imply that the >English language is inherently superior to Swedish. Nor is the >purpose to say "We're an American club so you HAVE to speak >English." It is, rather, a matter of practicality. When there is a >problem with the interpretation of Principality laws, it involves the >Drachenwald Officers and Royalty. Drachenwald is international--our >officers and royalty may be Swedish, or German, or French, or >British, or some other nationality not yet part of Drachenwald. The >only practical default language is English (unless we make a law for >everyone to brush up on their Esperanto). But what is implied by this is that the officers and royalty are more important than the people who have to live under the laws. Granted, they must be able to interpret the laws in order to settle disputes, but isn't it worse if disputes arise because of people misinterpreting laws written in another language? This is not to say that there shouldn't be an English version, there certainly should be. But I don't see why the primary version needs to be in English. I would think that if some question came up that required, say, a non-Swedish speaking King to settle some question involving some minute detail of the Swedish version of the laws, that it would be enough for him to take advice from enough Swedish speakers to be confident that he understand the issue, and make some ruling based on that advice. Why does he personally need to be able to read the laws? As an aside, I was recently reading a history of Flanders, and one of the things it discussed was the continuing struggle of the Flemish speaking poplulace to have the right to be tried in courts where Flemish, not French, was spoken. So at least the SCA is recreating _some_ parts of history :-) > The people who would finally approve your petition package >(the Board) are American and Canadian. They cannot review the laws >if they are in Swedish. Practicality dictates, then, that an English >translation accompany the Principality petition package. But why does the English version have to take precedence? Are people concerned that there will be some horrible law is the Swedish version, and then carefully mistranslated into English so that it will pass? I don't believe that for a minute, but why else is it so important that the English version take precedence? > The Principality laws within Nordmark boundaries can, and >should, be in Swedish so that the populace can read and understand >them. When these laws are examined by people outside of Nordmark (and >when there is a question about interpretation it always goes up to at >LEAST Kingdom level), they need to be in English. Again, I don't think there shouldn't be a version in English, but I think the Swedish version should be used as the primary version. But I also recognize that Board may not see things this way, so I'm going to propose some compromises. Could we submit both an English and a Swedish version of the laws, with the stipulation that the Swedish version takes precedence in any dispute between people who all speak Swedish, but that the English version dominates if any of the interested parties don't speak Swedish? I don't know if this will satisfy the populace (any other readers want to hazard a guess?), but it's a step. If not that, could we get the board to pass both an English and a Swedish set of laws, with the Swedish set to take precedence unless it can be shown that a section differs between the two. If this case were to ever come up, the English version would take precedence, but the laws would require that that section immediately be rewritten. I'm not really pleased with either of these compromises, so I'd love to hear more ideas, but I hope they are at least a start. What I'm trying to do is to find some compromise that will allow most questions to be dealt with using a Swedish version of the Laws, but to have in some way the "official" version be English (to please the BOD). If we can find some workable solution like this, I think that the English version would only rarely be refered to, since most issues that come up are likely to be between two Swedish speakers. > 2.) The Ting--As the proposed Principality laws read now, the >Prince and Princess have no power to make law. This power is reserved >for the Ting. As a Principality, Drachenwald used to have laws >similar to this and HAD to change them because they are expressly >forbidden by the Corpora (Corpora VI.A.1.g.1.--for those of you who >like to read that sort of thing). Hmmm. I seem to recall from my time in the Midrealm that the Curia votes on all laws and a majority is required to pass a law. It's possible that this has changed, but I know that the Midrealm Curia still controls a great deal. In any case, surely we can have laws that restrict the royalty's right to make laws, no? I know that the East used to require that any Law changes had to be proposed and discussed in an open Curia meeting (maybe they were called something else, I've forgotten). > The Ting should continue to exist as a forum for the populace >to communicate their opinions to the Prince and Princess as well as >Principality Officers. They can suggest, recommend, advise, but the >Ting cannot compel. Okay, how about this. All law changes must be discussed by the Ting, and the only power the royalty holds is to choose to veto a law passed by the Ting. If the royalty veto a law, it must be discussed again at the next meeting of the Ting. Would that fly? > 3.) Championship--The proposed Principality laws contain >several laws about championship--allowing a fighter (a champion) to >fight for a non-combatant couple so that they may reign as Prince and >Princess. This was a more complex issue since Drachenwald Law and >Corpora strongly imply that championing a non-combatant couple is not >compatible with SCA tradition. [...] > This is not a "because-we-say-so" answer. Championship of >this type has been brought up before in the SCA. Groups have split >away (and come back) over it. I personally have been in a group >which split from the SCA and allowed for non-combatant couples to use >champions to gain the throne. I have seen it dangerously abused. >There is room for abuse in our current system--this type of >championship increases the potential for misuse exponentially. I find it a little hard to argue about this issue, since it's not one that I personally feel strongly about. But the mild feelings I do have lie on the side of allowing champions, so I'll give it a shot. First off, while I agree there is potential for abuse (I, too, have seen other groups that used the system, and seen some abuse), I don't think it's any worse than the potential in the current system. And I agree that there are many honorable and competent people in the SCA who will never have the oportunity to reign under the current system; I think that we are all the poorer for that. In any case, regardless of how one feels about the issue in general, what about this as a compromise. Is there anything forbidding Nordmark from creating a ceremonial postion (call it Podesta, for the sake of argument)? Any prince may choose to apoint a Podesta, who then becomes for the duration of the reign, the ceremonial head of Nordmark. He sits in state in courts, instead of the Prince (the Princess is not an issue, since the prince can simply fight for her). He is authorized by the Prince to give out whatever awards are appropriate, etc. The only thing he would not get is the title of Viscount after the reign is over. I don't consider this a perfect solution, but it's one that we might be able to get passed. Then, after a few years when we can show that there has been no abuse of the system (I _hope_ we'll be able to show this after a few years :-), we will have some evidence that a Champion's Tourney is not such a bad system and perhaps we can get the full version passed. Again, in closing, let me emphasise that I am not trying to be devisive with any of my proposals, I am just trying to find workable compromises that everyone can live with. I think it's important for the people in Nordmark to realize that there is a lot of history and inertia behind the customs and laws of the SCA and that it may be difficult for some changes to be made. But I think it's also important for the Society and Kingdom officers to realize that Nordmark cares about these issues in a way that those officers don't, and that the people of Nordmark are the ones who will have to live with the laws after they are passed. I think we should be looking for the common ground that we have, and try to work out from there, rather than focusing on the details that we can't currently agree on. In service to both (I hope :-) the Society and Nordmark, Geoffrey Mathias, OL, KSCA From nordmark-request Mon Jan 23 23:21:19 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA11681 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 1995 23:21:18 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id XAA00460; Mon, 23 Jan 1995 23:21:16 +0100 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 23:21:16 +0100 Message-Id: <199501232221.XAA00460@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: jannis@sth.carta.se CC: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: <199501231121.MAA08852@mail.swip.net> (jannis@sth.carta.se) Subject: Re: Cantoniell storlek. etc From: Status: RO Tack f|r synpunkterna p} Holmrike, som jag inte har s} mycket erfarenhet av -- vilket inte hindrar mig fr}n att ha synpunkter. Ska en lokalgrupp fungera, m}ste man skaffa sig traditioner. Den b{st fungerande lokalgruppen i SCA idag {r nog Styringheim, tack vare }rligen }terkommande fasta punkter och goda kommu- nikationer mellan medlemmarna. I Aros bygger mycket p} de regelbundna m}ndagsm|tena och tr{ningsl{gret varje h|st. Att ordna ett st|rre evenemang {r ett bra s{tt att sparka ig}ng folk -- ju mera f|rberedelser man utf|r tillsammans, desto mer l{r man k{nna folk och f}r inspiration. Jag tror inte att en lokal {r l|sningen p} era problem, {ven om jag f|rst}r behovet. Aros har ocks} det problemet: vi {r f|r m}nga f|r att tr{ffas hemma hos n}gon, och m}ste vara i en steril/tr}kig skolsal. William From nordmark-request Mon Jan 23 23:25:25 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA11714 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 1995 23:25:24 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id XAA00465; Mon, 23 Jan 1995 23:25:22 +0100 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 23:25:22 +0100 Message-Id: <199501232225.XAA00465@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: Kristina.Hildebrand@engelska.uu.se CC: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: <199501231529.AA27736@lobster.hsc.uu.se> (Kristina.Hildebrand@engelska.uu.se) Subject: Re: lagen From: Status: RO Helt riktigt: Vi kan inte bli baronier *inom* baroniet Nordmark. Huvudanledningen till att bli furstend|me {r ju att h}lla ihop Sverige som en enhet, vilken kan inneh}lla flera baronier och h{raden. Sj{lv tror jag iofs inte att det vore n}gon katastrof med flera sj{lvst{ndiga baronier {ven om det inte finns n}got furstend|me. "G} ur Nordmark" l}ter f|rst}s negativt men beh|ver inte vara det; ett eget baroni p} hemmaplan ger ju nya m|jligheter. William From nordmark-request Tue Jan 24 00:54:09 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA12468 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 1995 00:54:08 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id AAA00657; Tue, 24 Jan 1995 00:53:53 +0100 Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 00:53:53 +0100 Message-Id: <199501232353.AAA00657@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: mjl@rational.com CC: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: <199501231603.IAA25030@bonnie.rational.com> (message from Matthew Larsen on Mon, 23 Jan 1995 08:03:51 -0800) Subject: Re: Letter to Silversparen From: Status: RO Greetings from William de Corbie. As you may notice, I have chosen to reply only to the Nordmark mailing list and to you Lord Geoffrey. I noticed that there were two messages from you, one of which had a lot of cross posting in the address section. I don't wish to engage in such a large- scale debate. BTW, some of the listed recipients are also recievers of the Nordmark list. On the language of laws: The proposed Nordmark Principality law had, in an earlier version, a paragraph stating that the Swedish version of the Law takes precedence. This was because the Law will be written in Swedish, by Swedish-speakers. Any discrepancy will therefore be a trans- lation error (or an unclear translation). It was merely a statement of an obvious fact. If the English version has precedence, a bad translation will actually *change* the law that we had decided on, which is absurd. However, in order not to make this into a stumbling block, the autumn Ting deleted that paragraph from the Law altogether. So The Board and others can think what they want; the Swedish version WILL take precedence anyway because doing it any other way is not logically possible as long as the law is written by Swedish speakers. We just don't spell it out any more, so there is nothing in the Law to argue about. On the making of laws: >In any case, surely we can have laws that restrict the >royalty's right to make laws, no? I think that this is not so. It seems that the Board stomped on all branches which had such restrictions a few years back. As Maire points out, Drachenwald had to change the rule that limited the Coronet's right to dictate laws. This probably goes back to an old SCAbomination: the idea that medieval Kings were "absolute monarchs", which they were not. Another cause may be the usual SCA paranoia about Nasty Evil Politics; this is a very convenient myth whereby any attempt by a majority to get reforms, can be easily thrust aside by those in power. A spectre to be waved in front of us whenever there is a threat to fighter's supremacy, and just as effective as the "Authenticity Police" myth (which is used to defend noninterest in authenticity). >Okay, how about this. All law changes must be discussed by the Ting, >and the only power the royalty holds is to choose to veto a law passed >by the Ting. If the royalty veto a law, it must be discussed again at >the next meeting of the Ting. Would that fly? We wanted to do it the other way around: The Coronet has a veto in that only they can propose law changes to the Ting. What offends the Board is obviously that anyone except the Coronet has any formal power in the making of laws. So your idea probably won't fly either. On Champions: >what about this as a compromise. Is there anything forbidding >Nordmark from creating a ceremonial postion (call it Podesta, for the sake >of argument)? Any prince may choose to apoint a Podesta, who then >becomes for the duration of the reign, the ceremonial head of >Nordmark. In my personal opinion: No sale. Having such a ceremonial head can never undo the fact that the Prince & Princess are the real rulers (as enforced by Corpora). The point here is that many people in Nordmark (and I dare say in other native European groups) feel that it is a gross inequity that the Society reserves all the highest honors for those who exercise one of the many hundreds of different activities which benefit the Society. The usual defense for this system is that there exists no other system whereby the rulers can be selected without nasty evil politics. Since no other method has ever been tried, this is clearly nonsense. In this case, we only wanted permission to *try* a different method for a limited time. I myself have no desire to be Prince (and with my present job I could not possibly fulfil the duties since I work most weekends). But the fact that I am legally barred from the position, makes me feel the same sort of anger that I would feel if I was black and saw a park bench with the inscription "WHITES ONLY". It is unfair. It is wrong. It must be changed. All members who con- tribute to the Society must have equal opportunities regardless of which fields of activity they make their contributions in. William de Corbie From nordmark-request Tue Jan 24 13:51:36 1995 Return-Path: frithiof@akka.kemi.uu.se Received: from akka.kemi.uu.se (akka.kemi.uu.se [130.238.66.10]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA16612 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 1995 13:51:35 +0100 Received: by akka.kemi.uu.se id AA04788 (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Tue, 24 Jan 1995 13:47:58 +0100 Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 13:47:58 +0100 From: Sven Noren Message-Id: <199501241247.AA04788@akka.kemi.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: Nordmark laws Cc: 100040.134@compuserve.com, mjl@rational.com Status: RO Just a thought: Would it make it easier to pass a law making the ting lawgiver, if we could document this as a period practice? This was, in fact, the situation in Sweden up through the middle ages. A prospective king had to travel to all the districts in Sweden, and swear to respect and uphold the laws of the land in order to be elected king. Frithiof From nordmark-request Tue Jan 24 14:52:42 1995 Return-Path: leeu@celsiustech.se Received: from world.celsiustech.se (world.celsiustech.se [139.58.1.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA17398 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 1995 14:52:41 +0100 Received: (leeu@localhost) by world.celsiustech.se (8.6.9/8.6.4) id OAA12279 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se; Tue, 24 Jan 1995 14:52:36 +0100 From: Leif Euren Message-Id: <199501241352.OAA12279@world.celsiustech.se> Subject: Vem skall lagen giva? To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se (Nordmark Mailing List (Prath|gen)) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 14:52:35 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 885 Status: RO H{lsningar till alla p} prath|gen. Under helgen satt jag och samtalade med n}gra goda v{nner, och vi kom d} in p} filisofen (?) Hobbes, och hans ideer om den suver{na monarken. D} slog det mig (aj :-) att det verkar vara fr}n honom som SCA f}tt sin ide om att det {r kungen (och i viss m}n drottningen) som ensamma styr riket -- stiftar lagar och d|mer. [r det n}gon som {r mera insatt i {mnet {n jag? Vad vi kom ih}g i l|rdagskv{llens dimmor var att Hobbes skrev sina verk under sent 1600-tal, och att ideerna d} var sm}tt uppseendev{ckande -- alts} fanns de h{r tankarna inte alls under medeltiden. Det h{r kan vara v{rt att forska i. Ska vi diskutera med BoD, ska vi ocks} ha argument. Och personligen tycker jag iden om att "lagen st}r |ver regenten" {r mycket viktigare {n om vi f}r ha f|rk{mpe i v}ra regent-torneringar, eller vilket spr}k lagen {r skriven p}. /Peder From nordmark-request Tue Jan 24 14:59:06 1995 Return-Path: <@nomina.lu.se:ralph@astro.lu.se> Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA17430 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 1995 14:59:03 +0100 Received: from nastol.astro.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP (5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA13446; Tue, 24 Jan 95 15:01:55 +0100 Received: by nastol.astro.lu.se(1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA16186; Tue, 24 Jan 1995 14:59:02 +0100 From: Ralph Snel Message-Id: <9501241359.AA16186@nastol.astro.lu.se> Subject: Re: Nordmark laws To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Tue, 24 Jan 95 14:59:02 MET Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Frithiof wrote: > Just a thought: > Would it make it easier to pass a law making the ting lawgiver, > if we could document this as a period practice? If only... Unfortunately there are not many SCA traditions that can be documented as properly period, and even less of the laws and rules that can. Then again there's period and period. Pre 16th century is a lot, and western Europe is also quite big. But I'm very much in favour for such a proposal! Ralph/Chlodovick From nordmark-request Tue Jan 24 22:41:16 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA20559 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 1995 22:41:15 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA14335; Tue, 24 Jan 1995 22:41:07 +0100 Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 22:41:07 +0100 Message-Id: <199501242141.WAA14335@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: leeu@celsiustech.se CC: nordmark@ludd.luth.se In-reply-to: <199501241352.OAA12279@world.celsiustech.se> (message from Leif Euren on Tue, 24 Jan 1995 14:52:35 +0100 (MET)) Subject: Re: Vem skall lagen giva? From: Status: RO Vill man veta mer om lagstiftning och kungamakt under medeltiden ska man l{sa Ullman -- en ytterst trevlig f|rfattare med flera intressanta titlar som man kan hitta p} forskningsbibliotek. Om jag minns r{tt s} fanns det flera teorier om makt och lag p} medeltiden. TEORIER allts}. Kungen som folkets f|rmyndare med makt fr}n Gud, {r en. Den traditionella lagen (common law) som |verordnad princip, {r en annan. Jag ska gr{va lite i de djupare kulturlagren p} min h}rddisk, s} f}r vi se om jag hittar n}t att l{gga in h{r. Sammanfattningsvis, s} funkade INGEN av de ovann{mnda teorierna i den medeltida verkligheten. Det var hela tiden en balans mellan adeln, kungen och de folkliga traditionerna fr}n {ldre tiders annorlunda (f|rfeodala) samh{llen. William From nordmark-request Wed Jan 25 03:19:38 1995 Return-Path: 5HABLUTZ@stu.jmls.edu Received: from cedar.cic.net (cedar.cic.net [192.131.22.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA22389 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 1995 03:19:35 +0100 Received: from law33.jmls.edu (law33.jmls.edu [192.207.162.33]) by cedar.cic.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA20413; Tue, 24 Jan 1995 21:19:38 -0500 Received: From JOHN_MARSHALL/WORKQUEUE by law33.jmls.edu via Charon-4.0-VROOM with IPX id 100.950124202104.608; 24 Jan 95 20:18:29 +600 Message-ID: From: "MARGO HABLUTZEL" <5HABLUTZ@stu.jmls.edu> Organization: The John Marshall Law School To: carolingia@bloom-beacon.mit.edu Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 20:16:05 CST Subject: Master Solomon's Surprise Party CC: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.11a) Status: RO FEEL FREE TO IGNORE THIS, I'M CROSS-POSTING TO TRY TO REACH AS MANY OF MASTER SOLOMON'S FRIENDS AS POSSIBLE! =========================================== SHHHHHHHHH! Master Solomon ben Jacob of Caer Anterth Mawr, Midrealm Will be 60 Years Old in March 1995, and we are hosting a party as big as he is! Tell Your Friends! Tell his Friends! Just DON'T TELL HIM!!! DATE = March 11, 1995 - 5:00pm to midnight Location = Classic Lanes/Willow Room, 7501 South Howell Avenue, Oak Creek, Wisconsin (just outside Milwaukee; send SASE for maps) We are asking for a $8.00 donation per person to defray cost of the site, decorations, and dinner; $2.00 for site fee only (no dinner, but you do get birthday cake). Dinner includes: chicken, ham, parsley buttered potatoes, cole slaw, potato salad, fruit salad, breads and rolls, relishes, coffee & milk, birthday cakes. There will be a cash bar. Dinner will be served at 6:00pm. We are putting together a Memory Book. Please make the pages 8.5" x 11" with a one-inch lefthand margin for binding ( done by a professional bookbinder). You may contribute stories, poetry, pictures, photos, whatever you like. Please mail to Morgan (Margo Lynn) (addresses below) by February 15, 1995, so it can be included. Email submissions are accepted, and will be printed out on a laser printer. Indicate if you would like a specific font (black letter, chancery, uncial) and we will try to accommodate. While your presence is the best present (contributions to the Memory Book being second), we are also trying to fulfill one of Master Solomon's dreams: to return to the Holy Land. Contributions may be sent to Judy Kader or Dana Burke (addresses below). We would appreciate advance reservations so that we can order enough dinners. Let us know if you have major allergies or other problems with the menu above; we will not order other meals, but we can make some accommodations. If you have a special dish you wish to bring and share, you may do so, but let us know; there are no additional cooking facilities available, please be prepared. YOUR HOSTESSES: Dana (Kader) Burke 2831 North 48th Street, Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53210 (414) 445-5154 Judy Kader 2775 A North Bremen, Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53212 (414) 374-1073 Margo Lynn Hablutzel (Morgan Cely Cain) 680 North Lake Shore Drive, #1828, Chicago, Illinois 60611 5HABLUTZ @ stu.jmls.edu CompuServe = 72672,2312 REMEMBER -- THIS IS A SURPRISE!!! PLEASE, DO NOT TELL!!!! This announcement may be circulated to other networks, and may be printed in newsletters and otherwise distributed. From nordmark-request Wed Jan 25 15:28:54 1995 Return-Path: Kristina.Hildebrand@lobster.hsc.uu.se Received: from columba.udac.uu.se (columba.UDAC.UU.SE [130.238.4.133]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA03187 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 1995 15:28:53 +0100 Received: from lobster.hsc.uu.se by columba.udac.uu.se with SMTP id AA31030 (5.67b8/IDA-1.4.4 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Wed, 25 Jan 1995 15:28:48 +0100 Received: from [130.238.165.74] (enkrihi.ENGELSKA.UU.SE) by lobster.hsc.uu.se with SMTP id AA26872 (5.67b/IDA-1.4.4 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se); Wed, 25 Jan 1995 15:28:44 +0100 Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 15:28:44 +0100 Message-Id: <199501251428.AA26872@lobster.hsc.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Kristina.Hildebrand@engelska.uu.se Subject: Re: Cantoniell storlek. etc X-Charset: LATIN1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: RO L t mig bara kommentera detta: I Aros bygger mycket p} de >regelbundna m}ndagsm|tena och tr{ningsl{gret varje h|st. >Att ordna ett st|rre evenemang {r ett bra s{tt att sparka >ig}ng folk -- ju mera f|rberedelser man utf|r tillsammans, >desto mer l{r man k{nna folk och f}r inspiration. M ndagsm tena r p tisdagar numera. Bland de st rsta sammanh llande faktorerna r dansen p torsdagar, samt att vi g r och dricker th hos n gon efter m tena (det r intressant att kl mma in en halv kanton i ett studentrum...). Tr ningsl gret r inte n got som engagerar hela kantonen. Vi ska ha ett event i mars. William har vi inte sett sedan i v ras. Celemon From nordmark-request Thu Jan 26 17:05:34 1995 Return-Path: mjl@Rational.COM Received: from rational.com (rational.com [130.213.1.2]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA14258 for ; Thu, 26 Jan 1995 17:05:28 +0100 Received: from igor.Rational.COM (igor [89.64.2.102]) by rational.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA00733 for ; Thu, 26 Jan 1995 08:05:44 -0800 Received: from bonnie.rational.com by igor.Rational.COM (4.1/smh-1.0) id AA12633; Thu, 26 Jan 95 08:05:17 PST From: Matthew Larsen Received: (from mjl@localhost) by bonnie.rational.com (8.6.9/) id IAA00639 for nordmark@ludd.luth.se; Thu, 26 Jan 1995 08:05:14 -0800 Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 08:05:14 -0800 Message-Id: <199501261605.IAA00639@bonnie.rational.com> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: Re: Letter to Silversparen Status: RO >On the language of laws: >However, in order not to make this into a stumbling block, the >autumn Ting deleted that paragraph from the Law altogether. So >The Board and others can think what they want; the Swedish version >WILL take precedence anyway because doing it any other way is not >logically possible as long as the law is written by Swedish >speakers. We just don't spell it out any more, so there is >nothing in the Law to argue about. I think this is the right course of action; there's no point in holding up the Principality over it, and, as you say, the Swedish version will in general be the only one consulted. But I think this is something that we should continue to push the Board on, for the reasons I originally gave. >On the making of laws: >>In any case, surely we can have laws that restrict the >>royalty's right to make laws, no? >I think that this is not so. It seems that the Board stomped on >all branches which had such restrictions a few years back. I will try to check this out. >On Champions: >>what about this as a compromise. Is there anything forbidding >>Nordmark from creating a ceremonial postion (call it Podesta, for the sake >>of argument)? Any prince may choose to apoint a Podesta, who then >>becomes for the duration of the reign, the ceremonial head of >>Nordmark. >In my personal opinion: No sale. Having such a ceremonial head >can never undo the fact that the Prince & Princess are the real >rulers (as enforced by Corpora). The point here is that many >people in Nordmark (and I dare say in other native European groups) >feel that it is a gross inequity that the Society reserves all the >highest honors for those who exercise one of the many hundreds of >different activities which benefit the Society. Yeah, I know it doesn't quite taste the same. But consider: if the people of Nordmark give that person all the respect that they would give a Prince, what is the difference? The Board can only dictate the structure we operate in, they can't affect the honor we give to others or the respect that we offer. And in the end, only that respect and honor have any real value, not whatever titles one wears. Thanks for the feedback! Geoffrey From nordmark-request Thu Jan 26 19:05:19 1995 Return-Path: <@nomina.lu.se:kansli.lth-j.spanne@macpost.lu.se> Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA15256 for ; Thu, 26 Jan 1995 19:05:16 +0100 Received: from macpost.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP (5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA16350; Thu, 26 Jan 95 19:08:11 +0100 Subject: Musik- och danshelg To: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se Date: Thu, 26 Jan 95 19:05:30 +0100 Message-Id: <950126.190530.86630@macpost.lu.se> Status: RO Till er som ska vara med paa musik- och danshelgen i Aros: Det staar paa schemat att jag ska haalla danskurs foer fortsaettare paa soendagen (e.m.). Foer att precisera vill jag tala om att det kommer att handla om italienskt 1400-tal: bakgrund, stil, teknik, rekonstruktion. Exakt inriktning och vilken/vilka danser vi ska syssla med beror paa vem som kommer och om ni har hoert min genomgaang av stilen tidigare, ev. hur maanga gaanger :-) Kursen aer klassad som nivaa B ("naagra foerkunskaper"), men du som inte har dansvana och tycker det haer verkar intressant foer att du t ex sysslar med musik aer mycket vaelkommen. Vi ses! /Catrin From nordmark-request Fri Jan 27 08:54:55 1995 Return-Path: <@nomina.lu.se:kansli.lth-j.spanne@macpost.lu.se> Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA25956 for ; Fri, 27 Jan 1995 08:54:54 +0100 Received: from macpost.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP (5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA26348; Fri, 27 Jan 95 08:57:49 +0100 Subject: How to Subscribe to the Grand Council Chronicle (fwd)) To: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se Date: Fri, 27 Jan 95 08:55:09 +0100 Message-Id: <950127.085509.86813@macpost.lu.se> Status: RO >Date: Thu, 26 Jan 95 15:52:46 EST >From: justin@dsd.camb.inmet.com (Mark Waks) >Subject: How to Subscribe to the Grand Council Chronicle > >Unto the good folk of the Rialto and elsewhere, greetings from Justin >du Coeur! > >Okay, the Grand Council is almost ready to roll. The email side of the >mailing list is, in theory, ready to start accepting subscriptions. >Anyone can sign up; this means that the Grand Council Chronicle, a >weekly digest, will be sent to you. > >WARNING: I expect these digests to be really big. Be prepared. > >Only members of the GC will be able to post to the list, but anyone >can read it; if you have something to say, talk to someone on the >Council. (Council members will be encouraged to pass along any useful >messages sent to them.) The GC's initial policies will be outlined in >the first "issue", and may well evolve a bit as things go along, so >be ready for possible changes down the line. > >There is also going to be a postal-mail version of this mailing list, >which is mainly intended for people who can't get it electronically; >more details will appear in the first issue, and will be sent to the >Kingdom newsletters soon. > >To subscribe, write to: > > listproc@lists.princeton.edu > >The body of the mail message should say: > >SUBSCRIBE SCAGC-L > >This is an automated list processor, so don't be chatty; extraneous >stuff might confuse it. > >As I said, all the gory details will appear in the first issue; please >don't hit me with questions until that comes out. With any luck, that >will appear around the middle of next week. Also, please don't try to >post anything to the list yet; how-to-post will also be discussed then... > >(Feel free to pass this message on to other places you feel it will do >some good...) > > -- Justin du Coeur > Secretary to the Grand Council > Crossing his fingers and hoping that > everything works... > >Random Quote du Jour: > >"Nobody's tried to adapt the Gor novels to comics. > The James Bond movies have all had titles instead of Roman numerals. > Jim Shooter won't have to worry about reconciling the Super Mario Brothers > with the Marvel Universe." > -- from "Some Things to be Thankful About" by Adam-Troy Castro From nordmark-request Fri Jan 27 14:25:44 1995 Return-Path: vader@csd.uu.se Received: from groucho.csd.uu.se (groucho.csd.uu.se [130.238.12.2]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA28123 for ; Fri, 27 Jan 1995 14:25:42 +0100 Received: (from vader@localhost) by groucho.csd.uu.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA00668; Fri, 27 Jan 1995 14:25:41 +0100 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 14:25:41 +0100 Message-Id: <199501271325.OAA00668@groucho.csd.uu.se> To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Subject: Palatinbaronier From: Status: RO Only two Palatine Baronies exist....Western Seas in Caid (Hawaii) and the Far West in Japan. The Baronial coronet is contested just as Kingdom and Principality are....by a tourney. The reigns last 6 months. Western Seas received special permission to make one of the tournies and Arts one. I do not know whether other arrangements would be approved. Before she left office, Hilary was thinking about becoming more disposed to Palatine Baronies. In the past, they required special circumstances. But I had thought all along that palatine barony might be an option for Nordmark. However, I do not know how the current administration would regard it. And I am even less certain how they might take a suggestion for a change in manner of choosing a Baronial coronet. I am concerned as to whether it would really be a way around the opposition to coronet by championship. In the index, Corpora defines Palatine barony as a non-standard branch organization occasionally authorized by the Board pursuant to C-V.D.5 for isolated branches. But since that reference says that the authorization is specific to the branch obtaining it, and implies no license to other groups....I would think it provides a way to experiment with the idea with less "danger" than a Principality Coronet or Kingdom Crown. The 1992 Kingdom Seneschal's Handbook does not address the issue of Palatine Baronies. I just remember what Hilary used to say about them. (Ovanst}ende mottogs fr}n Caitriona ni Bhriain som varit s}v{l furstinna som drots i Drachenwald samt kortvarigt medlem i BoD.) From nordmark-request Sun Jan 29 17:09:54 1995 Return-Path: rcole@informix.com Received: from gateway.informix.com (gateway.informix.com [192.216.240.3]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA20324 for ; Sun, 29 Jan 1995 17:09:50 +0100 Received: from informix.com (infmx.informix.com) by gateway.informix.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07646; Sun, 29 Jan 95 08:09:39 PST Received: from atlas (atlas.informix.com) by informix.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25913; Sun, 29 Jan 95 08:09:36 PST Received: by atlas (1.38.193.5/16.2) id AA25649; Sun, 29 Jan 1995 10:10:38 -0600 From: Rusty Cole Posted-Date: Sun, 29 Jan 95 10:10:38 CST Received-Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 10:10:38 -0600 Message-Id: <9501291610.AA25649@atlas> Subject: help with translastions To: nordmark@ludd.luth.se Date: Sun, 29 Jan 95 10:10:38 CST Cc: rcole@informix.com (Russell (Rusty) ) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Status: RO My Dear Friends, I have a favor to ask of a kind Gentle in Nordmark. It was just annouced that a good friend of mine would be made a Laurel in about 2 weeks. Instead of a scroll, he is having a chest made for him, in which the text for his 'laurel scroll' will be carved in runes. Here is the problem. He is a Norse personna that has traveled over much of old Scandinavia. He wants to have the text of the scroll in Old Icelandic, or Danish or Swedish. He will then translate that into Runes. My Swedish is really bad, and my Icelandic is even worse :) Could someone please help me with this? He is a dear friend and I think I'm more excited about his Laureling then he is...If I e-mail someone the text of the scroll(he said it won't be very long) would someone please translate it for me? Does anyone out there know old Icelandic? I would be most grateful for any and all responses on this. In Service, Hrolf Rustig, also known as Rusty the Amberman From nordmark-request Tue Jan 31 09:13:26 1995 Return-Path: <@nomina.lu.se:kansli.lth-j.spanne@macpost.lu.se> Received: from nomina.lu.se (Nomina.lu.se [130.235.132.90]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA10482 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 1995 09:13:25 +0100 Received: from macpost.lu.se by nomina.lu.se with SMTP (5.65/IDA-1.2.8) id AA25060; Tue, 31 Jan 95 09:16:21 +0100 Subject: (fwd) Broadside of a Board II-2 To: Nordmark@ludd.luth.se From: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 09:13:44 +0100 Message-Id: <950131.091344.89308@macpost.lu.se> Status: RO >Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 09:33:05 -0800 (PST) >From: "Flieg Hollander" >Reply-To: flieg@garnet.berkeley.edu >Subject: Broadside of a Board II-2 > >This is the electronic edition of Broadside of a Board. >This posting is to sca-reform. It has also been >posted to sca-west, sca-caid, antir, e5 and rec.org.sca. Cross posting >to other relevant electronic areas is allowed and encouraged, as is >creation and distribution of hard copies. For further information on >copying, see the colophon at the end. (The text will fit on two sides of >one page if formatted in WP 5.1 with three columns, 0.25" gutters, Dutch >Roman, 8.5 point, full justification, hyphenation.) > >*Broadside of a Board - Cynagua Investiture Edition -- >*January 28, 1995 (XIX) > >*General Report on the Board Meeting:* > Only five Board members were present. Ed Kreyling had severe >mundane job circumstances, John Fulton had both of his parents go into >the hospital. (Post-meeting report: The job survived and both parents >are better.) > A significantly better attitude towards the populace was expressed >verbally, especially in the opening statement from Chairman Randall >Tatro. However, in many of the discussions it seemed that both A.J. >Riviezzo and Randall were defensive and unwilling to put any trust in >the membership of the SCA. There was still an obvious split old-board / >new board. > About 50 additional people were in attendance, mostly Western, but >some from Ansteorra, and one Easterner. The King and Queen of the West, >Prince and Princess of the Mists, King of Ansteorra and Crown Prince and >Princess of Ansteorra were present. The audience was mostly polite. The >newest Board Member, Ed Morrill, ("Fast Eddie"/Edward Zifran of Gendy) >wore a casual suit with a "They're Lying" button. No one asked him who >"They" were. > >*Compliance Low on Non-Member Surcharge* > According to the report of the Society Seneschale, the non-member >surcharge has collected $25,350.40 as of December 7. However, the >Society Seneschale complained that compliance was low, and she "had >concerns" about the West Kingdom method of collecting the surcharge. The >East Kingdom has the lowest "compliance rate", but no Kingdom's >compliance rate was high. By reading between the lines on the report, >the compliance rate is calculated by counting the events in a group and >comparing it to the number of surcharge checks sent in. (Opinion: It is >clear to this reporter that Society Seneschale's "concern" with the West >Kingdom method is that she can't tell if we're complying or not. The >compliance rate as currently measured also ignores the fact that an >event with a "donation only" policy doesn't owe any surcharge.) > >*Board Actions on Officers:* > The Board extended the term of the Laurel King of Arms for one >year. > The Board accepted the resignation of the current Chirurgeon >General, and did _not_ appoint a new one. The matter will be considered >at the April meeting and further applications are solicited. > Lori Taylor (Viscountess Lore de Lorraine) was confirmed for >another quarter as Executive Assistant. > >*Where to write:* > Budget: A.J. Riviezzo, 19211 East Rice Dr., Aurora, CO, 80015. > SCA Office: P.O. Box 360789, Milpitas, CA 95036-0789 > >*Grand Council Charter Approved:* > The Board approved the Charter for the Grand Council as submitted >to them (amended from an initial proposal). In a move which raised some >procedural questions and a good deal of hilarity from the audience, the >members of the Board first voted "yes". When Randall pointed out that no >motion had been made, a motion to approve was made, seconded and passed. >The Board also approved the other six Kingdom-appointed members of the >Grand Council. Corwyn da Costa reported for the Grand Council that more >than 100 applications had been received for the remaining slots in the >Grand Council. Applications are still open. > One key provision of the Grand Council Charter is the control of >the Council over its own agenda (with some "suggested concerns", which >may or may not be considered for more than two minutes). Membership in >the SCA, Inc. is not, repeat NOT, a requirement to serve on the Grand >Council. > In a recent note published through the electronic media, it was >announce that publication of the proceedings of the Grand Council will >be starting soon. +Broadside of a Board+ will be copying the electronic >form of the reports, and will publish the way to obtain hardcopy >information as soon as we know it. > >*Membership Services makes plea * > A plea was made by Rene Signoretti, who manages the SCA office, >that a copy of all communications to Board members be sent to the SCA >Office. You may send a letter to individual Board members. If you do, >please indicate clearly in office copy of the letter which Board members >you have sent to. This will save the central office time and effort, and >the SCA will save money, since Rene will know who has to be copied. > >*No New Waiver Yet:* > The waiver committee did not report. In part this was due to the >fact that Director John Fulton had been called away suddenly due to >medical emergency in the family (see related story). The matter was put >forward to the April Meeting. > >*Next Board Meetings:* > April 9, 1995 -- Location unknown. The Pittsburgh bid fell through >due to timing problems. The criterion for selection of place will be >based on cheapest air-fares. Deadline for commentary is March 24. > July 22, 1995 -- Deadline for comments is 30 June. Location to be >decided at the April Meeting. The following two meetings are scheduled >for October 21, 1995 and January 20, 1996. > >*Foreign Rates changed:* > The new rate for Foreign Membership will be $25. No effective date >was announced, but it should be pretty soon. This brings the amount of >a Foreign Membership into line with the actual costs of processing the >membership and printing and mailing T.I. The Foreign membership rate >published most recently was actually costing the SCA, Inc. several >dollars for each Foreign Membership received. > >*Non-member surcharge rebates:* > Checks in the amount of $1 of each $3 of non-member surcharge >collected from each Kingdom were written and waved at the crowd. The >crowd liked the idea of getting the money back from the Board, but >several people were heard to wonder why the money had to make the back- >and-forth trip. (Other people, notably Your Correspondent, had firmer >opinions on the matter.) > >*Budget approved:* > The 1995 budget was approved as amended in Executive Session. This >means that the SCA, Inc. has an official budget for the first time in a >year. The budget will be published with commentary and sent to all >Kingdom Exchequers "in a few weeks". Individuals can obtain a copy from >their Kingdom Exchequer, or they can send an SASE to A.J. Riviezzo. >(This publisher recommends four ounces of postage and a $1 bill to cover >copying costs. Order it. Inspect it. Comment on it!) > Broadside of a Board offers a few quick questions to think about: >Why is the Stock Clerk office running at a loss? (Projected income minus >cost-of-sales is positive, but cost-of-sales does not include the Stock >Clerk's salary and benefits. If any reasonable salary is included in >the costs of the Stock Clerk office, it is losing money.) Why, in what >ought to be an "austerity budget," is the actual budget higher than what >the SCA, Inc. spent last year? Why is a large amount for an Executive >Director's salary budgeted into the Salaries section? > >*Non-member surcharge discussed -- >Extended without vote.* > An extended period (about half an hour) of commentary from the >audience on the non-member surcharge and its influence on the budget >took place. > Several people commented on the fact that the overall surplus of >the budget was $67,000, of which only $33,300 was attributable to the >non-member surcharge. Questions of why the surcharge had to be continued >as a mandatory activity were met with a consistent tactic of saying >things equivalent to "one cannot balance a budget on voluntary >donations", usually by A.J. Riviezzo. Concerns expressed by several of >the audience on the social implications of the surcharge being levied on >non-members only were listened to, but not acted on. > Several pleas for the Board to _ask_ for money rather than >_demanding_ it, were met with resistance from A.J. and Randall. Ed >Morrill, however, noted that if the Board had come out last January and >_asked_ for $5 each from the membership, then there would have been no >problem. (There are many "might have beens" in the Known World -- that >was one of them.) Several people also noted that the Board needed to act >to solve its PR problem. Some members of the Board admitted that there >was such a problem, but the Board as a whole took no action to solve it. >(At last report, however, Fast Eddie was preparing an appeal to the >populace. Watch this space.) One of the most startling statements of >the afternoon was one by Randall Tatro that it was not the Board's >function to ask for money. > While many people spoke eloquently against the surcharge (and no >one spoke for it), the surcharge was continued without a vote. When >this lack of action was questioned, the answer given was that the sur- >charge was in place and that no vote was necessary to continue it. >Inspection of the actual motion made last April confirms that there was >not official cutoff. However several people remember clearly that when >the surcharge was put in last April it was as a temporary measure. (See >Editorial.) > >*West Kingdom buys out??? >No more surcharge?* > This weekend the West Kingdom Exchequer Council will be meeting to >decide what to do about the continued imposition of the non-member >surcharge by the Board of Directors. Both His Majesty and the Kingdom >Exchequer stated in interviews this week that they strongly favored >"buying out" of the surcharge by paying the West Kingdom share of the >surcharge in advance from the Kingdom Treasury. Once this buy-out has >been accepted, no West Kingdom event would apply the non-member >surcharge. This would allow local groups to stop worrying about it >(either in collecting it or in working around it), drastically reduce >the paperwork at the local, Kingdom, and Corporate level, and allow the >West Kingdom to go on about its own peculiar way. Money to replenish >the Kingdom coffers would be included in the budgeting of site fees for >Kingdom events. > At the Board Meeting, the Treasurer, A.J. Riviezzo, said definitely >that Kingdoms could not just do fund raising to raise the money for the >surcharge, (since he didn't trust people to do it) but he left open the >possibility of pre-payment. This was implicit in his public statements >and explicit in private conversations with Their Majesties. Given the >advantages of pre-payment to the SCA, Inc. as well as to the Kingdom, it >is hard to see why such a plan would be refused. > Based on the interviews it seems likely that the Council will >decide to attempt to buy out for at least one quarter. Look to your >local information sources for confirmation of this. If it happens, the >news will be broadcast as widely as possible. > In our interview, His Majesty expressed a strong desire to know the >wishes of the populace on this matter. Despite his own feelings about >the surcharge, he wants to act for the good of the Kingdom _and_ to be >responsive to the wishes of the populace of the West. He will >undoubtedly be publishing his own plea for commentary, probably in the >March Page. However, there is no reason to wait until then to let Their >Majesties know your feelings on the matter. > Broadside of a Board offers the following as possible topics for >discussion in your letter to Their Majesties: Should the West Kingdom >pay the surcharge at all? (Some of us feel that the West should tell the >SCA, Inc. to forget any _mandatory_ fees from the populace or the >Kingdoms.) Should the West Kingdom raise money to offset the deficit in >the subscription liability, but hold it in escrow until the SCA, Inc. >produces fiscal policies that ensure that the subscription liability >will not be touched for operational expenses? Is the buy-out a bad idea? >Is the buy-out a good idea? Should we continue as we have been doing and >raise the money via a $1 surcharge per person attending an event? >Should we switch to collecting $3 only from non-paid-member attendees? >Should we go to "requested donation" site fees for events at all levels >and thus owe nothing to the SCA, Inc. by its own rule? > Broadside of a Board has been clear on its opinion on this matter. >We feel that the SCA, Inc. has no right to impose _mandatory_ fees on >the populace or the Kingdoms of the Known World. However, we also feel >that funding the subscription liability should be a priority for the >Board of Directors. If the Board is unwilling to properly beg for the >money that it wasted last year, we feel that the idea of the West >Kingdom paying its fair share via an annual or quarterly check to the >SCA, Inc. is a reasonable one. We urge the populace of the West to >support Their Majesties in this idea while working to convince the Board >that they can get more money with honey than they can with vinegar. > >*What is this man afraid of?* > The Board had established at its October meeting that people in the >SCA could apply to attend the Friday "working sessions" of the Board of >Directors. Your Correspondent applied to attend the Friday meeting. I >felt that I could contribute significantly to discussion on the budget, >and wished to witness discussion on other matters. In my letter of >application I clearly acknowledged the right of the Board to limit >outside discussion. > > I received, three days before the meeting, a letter from Randall >Tatro, Chairman of the Board, stating that: "One of the members >expressed grave concerns over your attendance and in this case the >wishes of the board members need to be respected." _One_ Board member >was able to blackball me from attendance! I have inquired. It was not >Lee Forgue, Ed Kreyling, John Fulton, L. Jane Richards, or Ed Morrill. >I believe that Randall Tatro would have had the courage to state his own >objections for himself. Therefore the person mentioned, must have been >A.J. Riviezzo. What is this man afraid of? > >*Kill the Surcharge!* > The Board did not _vote_ to continue the surcharge. The Board did >not have all its new members present, and an action of the Board takes >four votes. I know that there are Board members who do not like the sur- >charge. They couldn't do anything with five Board members present and >two of them in favor of the surcharge. > But in April it will be different. Write now to the Board and urge >that the matter of the surcharge be put on the agenda as an item to be >voted on, and then urge the Board to vote it out. > The SCA, Inc. does need to raise money to fund the subscription >liability, but it has a budget that can do that without the surcharge. >All they need to do is not hire an Executive Director and they will more >than make up the amount that is budgeted for the surcharge. The >imposition of the solution for the bad fiscal decisions of the Board >last year should not rest on the populace of the Known World, and it >most certainly should not rest upon the shoulders of the non-paid- >members! It is time for the Board to clean its own house and then to ask >for help! > >*Make your event donation only!* > Autocrats -- consider making your event "donation only". Most >people will pay the "suggested donation", some few people will not, and >some people will add extra. The advantage is that you don't have to >keep track of paid versus non-paid members, and you don't have to send >money through the Kingdom Exchequer to Milpitas. Less paperwork for >everyone! > >--------------------------------------------------------- > >Broadside of a Board is an occasional publication written and edited by >Frederick of Holland (3334 California Street, Berkeley, CA, 94703. Phone >(510)-653-3652. email: flieg@garnet.berkeley.edu). Reproduction of all or >parts of _Broadside of a Board_ is encouraged. Please don't alter any >article, and please do credit the source. Contributions from other authors >are solicited and will be printed on a space-available basis. >----------------------------------------------------------- > > * * * Frederick of Holland, MSCA, OP, etc. > *** *** *** flieg@garnet.berkeley.edu > _|___|___|_ > |===========| > (((Flieg Hollander, Chem. Dept., U.C. Berkeley))) > ================== Old Used Duke ================= > [All subjects of the Crown are equal under its protection > and no Corporation is going to convince me otherwise.]